people can say what they want, haters can hate, war mongers can cry foul, fanboys can cry the blues, but truth be told it is Muhammad Ali by virtue of his resume, which happens to be the Greatest in the History of the Sport

and the sad part is we really Never got to see him at his absolute peak as he was exiled for almost 4 years, which would have been his Prime years. we can only wonder and marvel at what might have been .

It’s the done thing to say he is…. but is he really the strongest? We have to put it in perspective. Yes, he was a monster in the late 60s to mid 70s and generally overwhelmed his opposition by virtue of being larger and more heavily muscled…. And in the 80s and 90s he used fat as a weapon… his 270lb carcass was impossible to push around…. but that's not strength.

He seldom (if ever) faced anyone his own physical size with similar power and durability in his prime. The one time he did, against Lyle… well it certainly wasn’t a mismatch. They both pushed and bullied each other about the exact same amount in their short fight. And Lyle was 35 years old too.

So, their encounter would suggest similar strength and power etc……Was Ron Lyle the strongest boxer of all time? Or even second strongest? Never heard anyone say he was either of those things or anywhere near it.

“Pick on someone your own size!”

Hot dog! Bob never was a coach is at it again, mangling the truth about boxing history, rewriting it to suit himself, and generally fueling his hate filled rants against American fighters! Tonight he lies about Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney, and generally rewrites and distorts boxing history!

The question is, who in boxing did or does have the best brawler style? Never was a coach claims it was Jack Dempsey, which is wrong, of course, since Bob who knows nothing about boxing is always wrong.

Historically, the vast majority of boxers, and boxing historians, name only one fighter as the meanest, toughest brawler in history: Henry "Hank" Armstrong.

First, any fighter who was nicknamed "Homicide Hank," is not going to be known for his gentlemanly boxing style.

For a brief period in 1938, Henry Armstrong simultaneously held 3 of the 8 undisputed world titles at featherweight, lightweight and welterweight. This was during an era with only eight weight classes and only one undisputed world champion in each class. No one has come remotely close to matching that accomplishment, before, or since.

To put that accomplishment into perspective with contemporary boxing, in today's game between 25 and 30 fighters claim world championship status for that same span of weight classes at any given time.

In 1940, Armstrong made an attempt to make it four of the eight titles, and challenged for the middleweight title. Armstrong drew against middleweight champion Ceferino Garcia, who he had beaten in 1938. The bulk of observers thought Armstrong deserved the win, which would have made him the world champion in half of boxing's weight classes during a two-year period.

So he rates as among the greatest pound-for-pound boxers of all time, no matter what standard is used for evaluation. For many historians, he is No. 2 behind only Sugar Ray Robinson. For all historians he is in the top 5 all time pound for pound fighters.

Armstrong excelled at changing levels and had an uncanny ability to slip in and out of range and alter his angles. But brawling and an extremely vicious (and dirty) fighting style was crucial to his success.

He had the twin nicknames of "Hurricane" and "Homicide" Hank, and both were well-earned. He attacked in a fury, often denying his opponents any space to throw a punch. Between April 1937 and March 1938, he knocked out an astonishing 27 straight opponents—more than two per month. He was also known, as an admiring Jake LaMotta said later, "for hitting the sons of b****es anywhere he could land!"

Armstrong fought every fight as though as it was a war, and his murderous take no prisoners, hit, elbow, gouge, style made him the ultimate brawler, and certainly the most successful.

If you are compiling a top five brawlers, Roberto Duran has to be included. Hands of Stone never saw a foul he didn't like. Roberto didn't always employ a brawler style - he had great fundamentals and could box as well as any fighter not named Robinson - but when he did, as against Iran Barkley, he captured the WBC version of the middleweight title by brawling Barkley in a phone-booth style brawl that won Fight of the Year honors.

Eddie Futch was in the game during Armstrong's incredible run. In 1932, Futch won the Detroit Athletic Association Lightweight Championship, and in 1933, he won the Detroit Golden Gloves Championship. He trained at the same gym as Joe Louis, the Brewster Recreation Center Gym, and often sparred with the future champion. A heart murmur prevented Futch from turning professional, and he began training boxers.

He once said about comparing Joe Frazier's swarming style with Armstrong's, "man, Joe's nickname ain't Homicide!"

So, on to Bob never was a coach's latest fantasy!

Bob who knows nothing about boxing says Gene Tunney was the most skilled heavyweight of all time, a fascinating claim, since Tunney himself considered Joe Louis to be the best fundamental boxer he had personally seen. To name Tunney, who was a light heavyweight who only fought at heavyweight a couple of years, and for a half dozen fights, the greatest boxer among heavyweights is plainly ridiculous. But hey, he is not a Black Golden Age fighter, right Bob?

As for Jack Dempsey, it is beyond question that Dempsey was a power puncher who used his speed and strength to great advantage. Further, Jack's background as a kid fighting for food, and learning to box in mining camps, did not lend itself to a gentlemanly style. But it is widely misunderstood - usually by folks who don't know boxing history - that Jack was not a good fundamental fighter.

Not so. Jack was an excellent fundamental fighter, as Two Ton Tony Galento would learn to his sorrow. In 1931 and Jack Dempsey, retired and pushing forty, had become Tony’s manager. Tony went through managers like he went through big dinners. Managers would come in and think they could convince Tony to actually get in shape and train - and found out he was exactly what he appeared to be a fat slob with power who was never going to train to maximize it.

But Jack thought he could get through where others had failed, and had convinced Ray Arcel to become Galento’s trainer. Dempsey felt he had a diamond in the rough here, a future heavyweight champion. Jack just had to get Tony to train properly, and actually get in shape.

By early 1932, Jack had enough of Galento's antics. Galento was "training" at Stillman’s Gym on 8th Avenue in New York City. Dempsey walked in, dressed impeccably in a handmade suit and saddle shoes. His white silk shirt and tie had been imported from Paris. His French cuffs were monogrammed with the letters JHD.

Dempsey stood with Lou Stillman as they watched Galento horse around in the ring. Tony was grossly overweight and needed a bath. He took nothing seriously, and he looked disgraceful. It only took the old champ literally, according to Arcel and Stillman's account later, about a minute to explode. Jack asked for a pair of boxing gloves and quickly removed his suit coat and shirt.

Dempsey then jumped up into the ring and said, “Now Tony, it’s you and me. I’ll show you how we used to do it.” Stillman rang the bell and Dempsey began to move around his fighter. Dempsey was still in good shape, within 5 pounds of his fighting weight.

And Tony Galento discovered to his sorrow that Jack Dempsey could really box.

He feinted and set him up and then hit Galento with his classic left hook to the face, which split Galento’s lips. Dempsey then closed in with a short right that broke Tony’s nose. Blood sprayed on Jack’s tailored trousers. Two Ton Tony tried to cover up and begged Dempsey to stop. It was just sparring after all. Dempsey ignored him and continued to fire away. Luckily for Galento, Lou Stillman rang the bell to end the round. Tony was a complete, bloody, wreak. Ray Arcel spoke up then and said, “I quit, take this bum somewhere else… He’s driving us crazy around here.” Dempsey spoke shortly to Galento, “Now I’m through with you. You can find yourself another manager and trainer.”

Lou Stillman later recalled that everyone in the gym could hear Dempsey’s left hook land to Galento’s head. Ray Arcel said it was a master showing an amateur how it is done.

Jack could box. He couldn't box as well as Tunney, who was a boxing Master in the Marines, but he had solid fundamentals. Why did he do so poorly against Tunney? Three reasons: styles make fights, and Tunney, lighter, faster, was able to stick and move; Dempsey had not fought in over 3 years, and his lifestyle in Hollywood had softened the old Mauler.

Never was claims Jack "reigned for 7 years" without mentioning he took three of them off entirely!

And those are the real facts, not invented ones from never was land!

..…”Late one night riding home in a taxi that had stopped at a red light, I saw 2 young punks running for my cab from both sides. The cabby was frozen

with fear as they flung my doors open so I took care of the situation by swiftly belting one with a right & the other with a left, flattening both. In a way

I felt sorry for them for having to hustle what they thought was the perfect victim. Another nicely dressed older gentleman would have forked over his

money rather than risk a fight”…….

The perfect victim turned out to be …..The Greatest Heavyweight Champ……Jack Dempsey…..

Happened in summer of 1968….the “Manassa Mauler” just turned 73…

Took a little poetic license with the answer to tell a story….. I’ve been aching to share for years.

1)AJ kind of like just popped in there.

Back in 2017, he unleashed one of the most picture perfect uppercuts against Wladimir Klitsckho, which amazingly didn’t cause a knockdown…Hmm…Wladimir’s chin has improved over the years, hasn’t it? But anyway, AJ used to throw some great looking power punches, in the days when he used to let his hands fly.

In a dismal display against a limited & clinically obese brawler, he showed the flip side of his coin. At world level, from a defensive standpoint, he is wide open to counter punches. No ifs, no buts — he still defends like an amateur. What makes matters much worse is that he used to like a tear -up…He hasn’t got the chin for brawling.

2) Arturo “Thunder” Gatti

On the front foot, against medium caliber opposition, the late Gatti literally looked like a million dollars & could put finishing combos together straight outta the Mike Tyson combo manual. Unfortunately, raise that boxing bar to the elite level & the defensive limitations of Gatti became obvious. Against genuine world class fighters like Oscar De La Hoya & Floyd Mayweather— he was made to look really bad & out of his depth.

3) Tommy Morrison

This guy could have been so much better if he had a defense. Way back in 1991, against Ray Mercer, he showed both sides of his coin. He bombed Mercer early with some devastating shots which by rights should have scored a knockout…Unfortunately, Mercer had a rock chin & just about took Morrison’s power. Mercer got a second wind & roared back at Morrison to score one of the most chilling & wide open knockouts in heavyweight history. From the moment Morrison was caught with the initial power punch, he was literally out on his feet & vulnerable to the follow up punches…A prime example of how not to take a punch.

If you mean the best brawler ever, then this guy on the right- a fighter once known as “the Hands of Stone” would get my vote. In the boxing business, Roberto Duran probably wrote the manual for brawling & is arguably the most complete & technically correct brawler in boxing history. In a strictly P4P comparison- this guy may well have had the most rock solid fists ever- hence the nickname “the Hands of Stone”- so he had the perfect toolbox for brawling. In the image at the top in Duran’s finest hour, he roughed up Sugar Ray Leonard in a legendary fight known as “the brawl in Montreal”. In this fight SRL learnt a very good & painful lesson & that is to- “never brawl with a brawler.” But at the same time, a huge amount of credit has to go to SRL- at least he had the intestinal fortitude to try & “bar fight” the master brawler.

Back in ‘83, in this fight against Davey Moore, Duran was at his brutal best - he was all over Moore from the outset - literally mauling the guy into submission. Apparently this fight was one of Mike Tyson’s favourite Roberto Duran fights & oftentimes Tyson has admitted to try & emulate Duran’s brawler style- particularly citing the precise manner in which Duran used to cut off the ring & “surgically” wear his man down.

Here we see Duran in action against the great natural middleweight “Marvellous” Marvin Hagler in a brutal & bruising 15 rounder back in ‘83. On this occasion, Duran came up just short & lost on a narrow split decision but gained huge respect in defeat. In the early ‘80s Hagler had gained a fearsome reputation as a real physical, switch hitting boxer/ puncher who uses to wear his opponents down “like a virus”. Even though Duran gave away significant height & reach to Hagler- he proved once again that if you can control the range of a fight then you can more than hold your own against the bigger man.

Many knowledgeable boxing fans dream of a hypothetical matchup of these two legends at 147 lbs. If there is one historical brawler who could potentially crack FM’s complicated defensive conundrum then surely Duran is that guy. This really would be a mouth-watering fight & the outcome would probably hinge on “the details” - such as ring size & bout duration. If the fight was a 15 rounder in a smallish ring then I would just about go for Duran……….

Follow me at AuthorHouse, Amazon, Barnes & Noble & other quality booksellers. ISBN 9781665585057

Original question: Who is your FAVOURITE boxer of all time and why?

Number one all-time has to be Manos de Piedra (Hands of Stone)…

Roberto Duran

103–16 (70)

Duran was brilliant in his prime, a vicious varied puncher with slick defensive skills, a solid chin, brilliant outside and masterful on the inside.

Roberto Duran WRTD13 Ken Buchanan (1972)

Despite all those stellar attributes, it was the way Roberto fought that endeared him to fans and boxers alike.

“Fighters would take one look at me and crap in their pants”

Roberto Duran

Intelligently aggressive, Duran went after opponents like they owed him money, just ferocious, as mean as they come, with machismo to burn.

Universally recognised as one of the greatest fighters of all time, as lightweight champion Roberto Duran was close to a perfect fighting machine.

Roberto Duran WKO14 Ray Lampkin (1975)

He’d go on to successfully compete at higher weights, beating one of the greatest welterweights of all time (Sugar Ray Leonard) and almost beating Marvelous Marvin Hagler, one of the greatest middleweights of all time.

Roberto Duran WTKO12 Estaban DeJesus (1978)

When Duran left 135lbs his record stood at 63–1 (52) and he’d made 12 successful defences, 11 by stoppage. His sole blemish during that period, a non-title points defeat to DeJesus at 140lbs, had been avenged twice inside the distance.

Roberto Duran WUD15 Sugar Ray Leonard (1980)

Perhaps his greatest performance came against Sugar Ray Leonard. Roberto was magnificent that night in Montreal, driving Leonard to the ropes, forcing him to fight inside like a man possessed.

Many wrote Duran off following the ignominy of the ‘No Mas’ rematch. When a sluggish weight drained Duran inexplicably quit in the 8th round. Overnight his status went from national hero to pariah in Panama.

The trajectory of Roberto’s career above 135lbs is a roller coaster of stratospheric highs and crushing lows. This might be a factor why he’s a favourite of mine, who doesn’t like a comeback right?

Duran’s first redemption came against unbeaten but relatively inexperienced WBA light middleweight champion Davey Moore.

Roberto Duran WTKO8 Davey Moore (1983)

In as brutal and one-sided a beating as you’ll ever see, compounded by an incompetent referee, Roberto batttered Moore mercilessly, and the shame of ‘No Mas’ was, at least partially, exorcised.

Next up, Duran challenged undisputed middleweight champion Marvelous Marvin Hagler. Up on the scorecards going into the 14th round. Roberto eventually lost a razor thin decision.

To help put this performance into perspective, going into this fight, the immensely powerful Hagler had won all seven prior defences by stoppage.

Marvelous Marvin Hagler WUD15 Roberto Duran (1983)

After another defeat, this time much more physically devastating, to Thomas Hearns (LKO2), Duran yet again appeared finished.

Yet remarkably, following an 18 month retirement and after stringing a few wins together, Roberto got himself into shape for a surprise shot at WBC middleweight champ Iran Barkley in 1989.

Roberto Duran WSD12 Iran Barkley (1989)

A huge underdog, Duran delivered a superb performance of technical boxing inside and out, even managing to drop the much larger teak tough Barkley late in the fight.

In the end, 17 years after first winning the lightweight title, and 22 years after turning pro - Duran was champion one last time.

Like so many greats, Roberto fought on far too long, losing to lesser foes throughout the 1990s before retiring for good in 2001.

Here’s a selected list of achievements…

• Lightweight champion 1972–78, voted greatest lightweight of all-time by the Ring Magazine and the IBRO.
• Four weight world champion at lightweight, welterweight, light middleweight and middleweight over a 17 year period.
• The IBRO (International Boxing Research Organisation) ranked Duran as the 5th greatest fighter of all-time in their most recent poll (2020).
• Ring Magazine ranked Duran 5th in their 80 Greatest Fighters of the last 80 years list (2002).
• Boxing historian Bert Sugar ranked Duran the 8th greatest ever in the 2006 edition of ‘Boxing’s Greatest Fighters’.

None of these achievements really explain why Duran has legions of fans to this day, or why he’s my favourite fighter.

Just go watch him fight, if you like boxing - you’ll love Roberto Duran.

Some fans judge Duran solely on his performances against other members of the Fab Four (Leonard, Hearns, Hagler) in the 1980s. To me that isn’t remotely fair. As a natural lightweight, Roberto was the smallest of those fighters by some distance.

Perhaps it’s a romantic outlook, but I prefer fighters who took risks, and had to overcome adversity, to rise again and comeback. Duran did that at least twice.

The short video below is for anyone who views Duran as a crude brawler/slugger, it highlights the defensive brilliance of this truly remarkable fighter.

Just a joy to watch, that’s why he’s a favourite of many including me.

Yes.

In only three fights against novices, each one making their pro debut, Jake Paul has proven himself to be the greatest boxer of all-time.

When thinking of the greatest ever some might point to Muhammad Ali; who triumphed over monsters like Liston, Frazier and Foreman…

Muhammad Ali

Many will think of the incomparable grace and destructive power of Sugar Ray Robinson…

Sugar Ray Robinson

Yet they'd all be wrong. Clearly the greatest fighter of all-time is this numpty…

PS: I’m not serious.

The best heavyweight has to be the only one who retired undefeated at a time when there were numerous good heavies around.

The original Rocky. 85Kg (13st 5 lbs)

The other top boxer was Marvellous.

Although I quite like the Great J.L.

How many people could get away with an entrance such as: ‘I Can Lick Any Son of a Bitch in the House’ and then prove that it was true?

NO, in the opinion of most boxing historians, Joe Louis was not the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time.

But, in the opinion of most, he is ranked the second heavyweight of all time.

CREDIT PICTURE NEW YORK TIMES

People have forgotten how great Joe Louis really was, and they put WAY too much emphasis on size…

Jack Blackburn, history’s greatest trainer, told Joe Louis before he fought the giant Buddy Baer, who was as big as any of these modern giants, and hit far harder:

“Don’t worry about him being no giant, by the time you’re done, he be a foot tall laying on the damn canvas!”

And he was.

Joe Louis, the Brown Bomber

Joe Louis was a truly great, generationally great, fighter, one of the most powerful and fastest punching heavyweight boxers in ring history. His great hand speed, especially in combination, was incredible to behold. One of his opponents, former world champion Max Baer, said:

“I define fear as standing across the ring from Joe Louis and knowing he wants to go home early."

Joe had a powerful jab, threw every punch perfectly and with pinpoint accuracy. His right cross, thrown short and straight, was perfection. Floyd Patterson wrote that his punches were:

“The most perfect I ever saw.”

The "Brown Bomber" never ducked anyone as his record 25 title defenses attests to. Of those 25 successful defenses, 21 were won by knockout, 17 of those were complete knockouts, not stoppages! 5 knockouts in the first round!

Joe also knocked out six men who held the undisputed Heavyweight Championship of the World. From 1934 to 1949, when he first retired as champion, his record was 60-1 with 51 knockouts. He held the Heavyweight Championship for a record of nearly 12 years.

When he retired he had defeated every man he faced at least once. His only loss was avenged in less than a round.

Louis knocked out 3 heavyweight contenders, all ranked all time greats, who were physically bigger than Joshua, Wilder, and one was the former undisputed heavyweight champion. #2 contender and former champion Primo Carnera, #5 contender Abe Simon, and #7 contender Buddy Baer, all ranked generally in the top 100 of all time, all took savage beatings from Louis, who gave the later two beatings so severe they both retired after their fights with him!

He is ranked the #1 or #2 heavyweight of all time, and he would literally eat alive the modern stooges, and their traveling clown, Fat Andy.

Joseph Louis Barrow, born on May 13, 1914 fought from 1934 to 1951.

He reigned as the undisputed world heavyweight champion for an incredible 12 years, from 1937 to 1949. Nicknamed the "Brown Bomber," Louis' championship reign lasted 140 consecutive months, during which he had 26 championship bouts.

The great trainer Jack Blackburn fashioned Louis from a free moving, free wheeling amateur, into a deadly knockout machine who patiently followed his opponents around the ring, set them up with pinpoint jabs, and generally knocked them out with what Floyd Patterson called in ‘The international hall of fame basic boxing skills:

“Joe Louis had the “sweetest left hook I have ever seen, and the deadliest right cross.”

A great boxer needs three things, according to Emmanuel Steward, the legendary, late, great, Hall of Fame trainer:

1. talent; (speed, strength, reflexes);
2. willingness to work and devote yourself to be the best;
3. great people to teach you and be your team.

Joe Louis Barrow had all three.

Sam Langford, one of the greatest fighters who ever lived summed up Joe Louis when he said:

“The Detroit Bomber is another Gans, whom I consider the greatest fighter of all time… He (Louis) can hit, he is fast and is no slouch at employing ring craft. I am glad I am still able to see enough to watch the boy. He is the marvel of the age.”

CREDIT THE JULY 20, 1935 EDITION OF Chicago Defender

Jack Blackburn made Joe Louis Barrow into the Great Joe Louis

Jack Blackburn is best known as the Hall of Fame trainer of the great Joe Louis, but he was also a great lightweight boxer who engaged in over 160 recorded professional fights from 1901 to 1923. (Blackburn claimed to have had 385 fights. In a time when boxing was illegal in many states, most of his fights probably went unrecorded.) That boxing career shaped Blackburn’s subsequent career as a trainer.

Never a champion Blackburn still fought some of the greatest fighters of all time. He fought the legendary lightweight champion Joe Gans, “The Old Master” three times, all time great Sam Langford six times, (despite a major weight disadvantage), the great welterweight Dave Holly five times, future light-heavyweight champion Philadelphia Jack O’Brien, and Harry Greb, possibly the fourth greatest middleweight of all time.

Blackburn even fought heavyweights Jim Barry and Gunboat Smith. Billy Rocap said the greatest fight he ever saw was Blackburn’s famous 15 round draw with Sam Langford in Marlboro, Massachusetts. Veteran historian Charley Rose rated Blackburn as the third greatest lightweight ever in his 1968 ratings.

An even more interesting story about Blackburn is his being in the gym when Jack Johnson walked in, and laughed at the young fighters. Blackburn, who feared nothing, told him:

“Come on boy, I will learn you.”

And he did, dancing around the big man, hitting him from all angles, and making him look like a fool. At the end, when Blackburn strolled off, he said:

“Skill beat size and mouth every time.”

And he taught those skills to Joe Louis.

And Blackburn watched every bit of what trainers did during his 22 year career, and applied it to become a truly great trainer himself.

Blackburn trained four fighters who went on to become world champions:

• bantamweight Bud Taylor,
• lightweight Sammy Mandell,
• welterweight Jackie Fields, and
• heavyweight Joe Louis.

Louis was his pride and joy, who he felt he had molded in the image of the great technicians of his day, the vicious but cerebral Blackburn, the “Old Master of the Ring” Joe Gans and power punching Sam Langford.

Joe Louis started in the unpaid ranks with an amateur record of 50-4 with 43 knockouts and won the Detroit Golden Gloves titles and the National AAU Light-heavyweight championship in 1934, before deciding to turn pro.

Louis’s manager, John Roxborough, sought to hire Jack Blackburn, to turn Louis into the champion they envisioned.

Blackburn was introduced to Joe Louis on June 25, 1934 and watched Joe sparring and hitting the heavy bag. Blackburn said later he saw at once Louis had natural punching power, something that could not be taught, but he also saw that he was completely dependent on his power, and lacked solid fundamentals.

Blackburn talked of his observations of the young Louis, and what he thought he would need to become great, to the Pittsburgh Courier, on July 20, 1935 saying:

“Louis needed correction in everything except hitting. I had to teach him to back up his punches with the proper timing, accuracy and to instruct him in the proper art of balance. I trained him under the same methods I trained under when I was a fighter.”

CREDIT COX’S CORNER, AND THE Pittsburgh Courier July 20, 1935 edition

Louis spoke of what Blackburn gave him in his autobiography Joe Louis My Life:

“He (Blackburn) saw my faults right off. I was hitting off balance. He corrected this by showing me how to plant my feet and punch with my whole body, not just swinging my arms. He said people going to fights don’t want to see a dancer or a clincher –they want to see a man who goes for the guts. He said I had strength and that I could beat or knock out anybody I wanted to if I planted my body in the right position.”

Louis said his first week with Blackburn the trainer did nothing but hold the heavy bag and taught Louis how to actually punch correctly.

CREDIT COX’S CORNER, AND Joe Louis My Life

Blackburn developed Louis into not only a boxer-puncher of extraordinary power and authority. Blackburn taught Louis to use short compact punches - compare his punching on You-Tube with Wilder’s bolo punches!

James J. Braddock was quoted by John McCallum as commenting on Louis power, saying:

“Nobody hits like Louis. A punch is a punch. But that Louis. Take the first jab he nails you. You know what it's like? It's like someone jammed a electric bulb in your face and busted it."

When asked about his right hand, he said:

“It ain't like a punch. It's like someone nailed you with a crowbar. I thought half my head was blowed off. I figured he caved it in. After he hit me I couldnt even feel if it was there."

Joe had weaknesses, though most could not take advantage of them

Manny Steward explained once:

“no fighter is perfect. A good trainer finds his fighter’s weaknesses, and devises ways to defend them, while finding his fighter’s strengths, and emphasizing those.”

Joe had weaknesses. His chin was decent, but not great, and he was not the fastest afoot of heavyweights, though his hand speed was generationally impressive. He compensated for his weaknesses with pin-point accuracy, superb fundamentals, and truly impressive power.

Thanks to Jack Blackburn, Joe Louis was one of the best technical boxers to ever grace the ring. And even more importantly, Blackburn never failed Joe in devising fight plans to defeat the greatest of opponents, and helping him adjust when all hell broke loose. Blackburn may have been the best trainer and corner man in history.

Why then is Joe second to Ali all time?

Jack Blackburn, history’s greatest trainer, had a simple test for greatness:

“Who you beat, when did you beat them, how did you beat them, did you rematch them?”

By that test, Muhammad Ali really is the greatest, it’s as simple as that.

Anthony Mason, boxing writer, said:

“I think the only way to fairly rank a boxer's place in history is by comparing their résumés. And that does not mean just wins and losses - it is too easy today to fight only has beens or never will be's, and run up the record.”

By the test of who he faced and beat, Ali cemented his place in boxing history.

1. Ali faced 8 Hall of Fame boxers and beat 7 of them at least once; a win rate of 87.5% against Hall of Famers
2. Ali had the best record for rematches of any heavyweight in history, 11–0;
3. 25 major contenders fought during Ali’s reign, and he faced every single one, and beat all but 2 at least once, for a win rate of 92% against top opponents

Compared to Joe Louis:

1. Joe fought 10 Hall of Fame boxers and beat 8 of them at least once; an 80% win rate against Hall of Famers
2. Joe was 6–0 in rematches
3. 18 major contenders fought during Joe’s era, and he faced them all, and beat all but two at least once, for an 88.88% win rate against top opponents.

The numbers don’t lie, Joe was great, Ali was greater.

Muhammad said in his own autobiography, The Greatest: My Own Story:

“When people ask me about who was the greatest of all time, I say look at the records. I fought better competition, over a longer period of time than any other fighter in history.”

And he is right.

In compiling a list of the greatest heavyweights, Tyrone Bruce said in ranking Ali first among greats:

“In terms of social and historical impact no one even comes close. However, what really puts Ali number one all time is his quality of opposition. Many people consider the 1970’s the best decade in the division’s history and Ali proved beyond a doubt that he was the finest fighter of that or perhaps any generation. Ali holds victories over Joe Frazier (twice), Sonny Liston (twice), Floyd Patterson, Ken Norton (twice), as well as a knockout victory over a prime George Foreman.”

The Ten Great Heavyweights of All Time: | BoxingInsider.com

Ali fought everyone, and there were more great heavyweights during the Golden Age than any other era in boxing history, including Joe’s

There were 25 top heavyweights fighting during Ali’s era - the most in one era in boxing history - and Ali beat 23 of the 25 at least once in 33 fights.

That meant more than half of his fighters were against top ranked competition during the single ranking era, the best percentage in any weight class in boxing history!

Manny Steward summed Ali’s greatness up best:

“Ali was the only champion that I know of that fought anybody, everybody. It was nothing about styles. He fought guys who were terrible for him style wise, but Ali would just tell Angelo Dundee, “Let’s fight”—and he put him with a guy like Kenny Norton who was always going to be a problem because of the way Kenny kept his elbows, he blocked jabs and right hands and that’s all Ali basically had and then he fought him I think three times; Joe Frazier; he went to London to fight Brian London and Henry Cooper; and he went I think to Canada to fight (George) Chuvalo; he fought Karl Mildenberger to fight the German in Germany. He didn’t care whose style that he had to fight so in that way, Ali was the greatest because fought anybody, everybody, in their country, if it was a style that was bad for him he didn’t care, fight him in a rematch he’d do that, whatever.”

But Manny is not the only one to note the quality of Ali’s competition.

Max Kellerman said:

“From 1970, when Ali came back from his forced exile, to 1978, when Ali won back his crown for the final time (against Leon Spinks), Ali shared the very top shelf with Joe Frazier and George Foreman, and the three of them were supported by Ken Norton and Joe Bugner and, in the beginning of the decade, Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis, and at the end of the decade Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young. Ali fought them all, and many of the others fought each other. The greatest heavyweight era ever.

As heavyweight eras go, this one is very good

Max also said:

“if you count from the day he dethroned the most feared boxing champion ever, he dominated his sport for 14 years! NO one else ever did that."

As heavyweight eras go, this one is very good

Both Ali and Joe Louis sit proudly in the Hall of Fame…

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

But there is a reason Ali is ranked #1 and Joe Louis #2 all time among heavyweights…

First, as Jack Blackburn says:

“the guy who beats the best most often is top dog.”

And that is Ali.

And he also would have beaten Louis, had they met..

Manny Steward calls this one:

“If they fought, I think Ali would have definitely, I feel in my mind, beat him because Ali was the computer printout of everything that was a problem for Joe Louis. The movement which Joe had problems with, even in a little small light heavyweight Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott, those guys Joe always had problems with…as far as who would have beat who, I think Ali would have beat him”

And the rankings reflect Ali as #1 and Joe Louis as #2 of all time

Ali is #1 and Joe Louis is #2 by Ring:

From THE RING: The greatest heavyweight of all time - The Ring

Ali is #1 and Joe Louis is #2 all time by Boxing Insider:

The Ten Great Heavyweights of All Time: | BoxingInsider.com

Ali is #1 and Joe Louis is #2 of all time by Boxing Action:

THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHTS Of All Time

Ali is #1 and Joe Louis is #2 of all time by Fight City:

https://www.thefightcity.com/top-12-greatest-heavyweights-boxing/

Ali is #1 and Joe Louis is #3 by Give Me Sport:

The 50 greatest heavyweight boxers of all time have been named

Joe Louis is second only to Ali.

CREDIT TO:

Ali: A Life by Jonathan Eig

Going the Distance by Ken Norton

Joe Louis by Joe Louis

Joe Louis: Hard Times Man by Randy Roberts

Joe Louis: The Life of a Heavyweight by Lew Freedman

JULY 20, 1935 EDITION OF Chicago Defender

JULY 20, 1935 EDITION OF Pittsburgh Courier

Ring Rankings

What made Muhammad Ali 'The Greatest' in the ring?

Does that answer your question?! Hope that helps.

Joshua has not even proven he is the best heavyweight of this very limited era.

Joshua is stiff, and ponderous, and Ali would have made him look like a puppet on a string. Foreman or Liston would have knocked him all the way out of the ring, and Frazier or Holyfield would have pounded him inside mercilessly.

CREDIT PICTURE THE TELEGRAPH

The only people who think Joshua is a great fighter are the same ones who believe Floyd (I duck everyone who might beat me till they are 105 or make them lose 81 pounds in three days) Mayweather is the best boxer of all time. They know absolutely nothing about boxing.

Some people, again, who know absolutely nothing about boxing, base all time rankings purely on won-loss, or whether the fighter was ever knocked down. This proves only that they know NOTHING about boxing. Mike Tyson said once, "anybody who ain't been knocked down ain't never fought nobody."

Anthony Joshua has two styles, one, I call the normal boxing style and second, the run for your life style.

In his ordinary boxing style, Joshua, who has an 82 inch reach to go with his 6′6″, uses his long jab to hold opponents on the outside, and set them up for his straight right, which is quite powerful.

Problem is, Joshua, who has good fundamentals, forgets all about them, his fight plan, and everything he knows about boxing when he is hit hard, and rushes forward to engage.

Since he has a chin of the finest china, this is the worst possible thing he could do.

If only Joshua had the ring smarts to compensate for a china chin - but he does not. He can follow a good fight plan, like he did staying outside with Andy “Moby Dick” Ruiz waddling after him. But if a fight plan breaks down?

Joshua is robotic, and lacks the mental ability to even be a very good fighter when things veer from his fight plan. Joshua completely lack adaptability and ring IQ. He can follow a fight plan to the T, as he proved in Ruiz #2 IF nothing goes wrong. But he cannot adapt on his own, as he showed in Ruiz #1, he cannot adapt to the unexpected, see again Ruiz #1, and worst of all, his natural instinct is to rush forward and engage.

And even if Joshua had ring intelligence, that would not give him that unique coolness under pressure, and ability to override instinct that only great fighters have. Joshua does not have it, and making him twice as strong and three times as smart wouldn’t give it to him.

SO, his team fashioned the second, “run from your life from a whale or anything else dangerous” style.

Joshua studied Usain Bolt instead of Lennox Lewis, and devised a version of Klitschko’s jab, grab, and hold, coupled with Bolt’s run as fast as you can style. If anyone who can punch closes in range, Joshua jabs, grabs, holds, and when the ref breaks, he runs lustily around the ring until his opponent tires.

Tale of the Tape

Size:

A year ago Thomas Hauser and Ring Magazine conducted a poll of boxing experts, writers, trainers, and fighters, to determine the greatest heavyweight of all time. The poll picked and evaluated 20 champions dating back to the very onset of gloved heavyweight championship fights.

The fighters, listed chronologically, are John L. Sulllivan, James Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, James Jeffries, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko and Wladimir Klitschko. (Joshua, quite rightly, did not even make the cut for consideration of best of all time)

The panel contained such trainers as Teddy Atlas, Virgil Hunter and Don Turner, and such fighters as Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis. Historians such as Randy Roberts, and boxing experts such as Al Bernstein were also on the panel.

They rated the fighters and compared them on skills, level of competition, toughness, ring IQ, and adaptability. In the end, all agreed, and a clear consensus emerged. Muhammad Ali was in first place as the greatest of the great, best of all time heavyweight. Joe Louis was the second greatest all time heavyweight, Lennix Lewis was 11th, Wladimir Klitschko was 16th, Vitali Klitschko was 17th.

Anthony Joshua was not even considered or named by any expert to be in the top 20.

Larry Holmes snorted with contempt when asked if Anthony Joshua could have competed with the greats of yesterday:

“our era would have dominated the likes of Anthony Joshua.”

Here’s my take…..

Number 1: Ezzard Charles

95–25–1

Why is Cincinnati Cobra the number 1 best pound for pound ever? Because he arguably deserve to be there based on his career antics. In fact, he even tops over the great Sugar Ray Robinson(though not writing Ray off), Muhammad Ali and other great fighters. Though he is also considered the greatest light heavyweight boxer of all time despite never unifying a title there. Charles career was impressive. Originally a middleweight however he had to strictly move up to different weight because he was denied a title shot so he moved up to light heavyweight but again, still denied a title shot so he moved up to heavyweight where he finally earn him the title where he would defend it eight times until he lost that title to Jersey Joe Walcott. Later on, the ALS destroyed his career which made him have a lot of losses but nonetheless, Charles deserve to be in the conversation with being one of the Greatest boxer of all time with Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali.

Who did he beat that puts him the number 1 best pound for pound ever? Charles record is truly impressive, he fought great opponents in three different weights

• Middleweight- Charley Burley, Anton Christoforidis, Teddy Yarosz.
• Light Heavyweight- Archie Moore, Joey Maxim, Oakland Billy Smith, Gus Lesnevich, Lloyd Marshall.
• Heavyweight - Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Elmer Ray, Jimmy Bivens, Bob Satterfield, Pat Valentino.

As you could see Charles should be the number 1 best P4P boxer of all time because he fought impressive great opponents in three different weights. I also believed that Charles would do well against the modern fighter. Despite his size, I think he could beat Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearn, Canelo, GGG at middleweight. At heavyweight, I think he could beat Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Wladimir Klitschko, David Tua but I don’t see him beating Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe or Vitali Klitschko since they are good big guys but Charles would try his best and I do think Charles would beat these today’s modern heavyweight such as Andy Ruiz, Deontay Wilder, Anthony Joshua and I believe he could put up a strong fight against Fury and I would favor Charles to try to pull this one.

Number 2: Sugar Ray Robinson

173–19–6

Why is he on the list? Before Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson was a masterpiece of boxing and was originally considered the greatest boxer of all time before Ali shows up and was the first boxer who created the term pound-for-pound. Ray was an astonishing fighter back then. Originally named Walker Smith Jr, Ray was something someone had looked up to and what’s unique about him is he had 200 fights and his record is marvelous. His best weight was welterweight where no one really could have beat him in that weight, and ignore Jake LaMotta but no one could have beat him at welterweight not even Floyd Mayweather. Ray also did so well at middleweight in fact he is widely considered the greatest at both weights such as welterweight and middleweight. However, while welterweight was his best weight, there was other middleweight who would’ve been favored over Robinson and that is Ezzard Charles but Ray was almost considered unbeatable. I believe Robinson would’ve beat almost any modern boxer at welterweight or middleweight. Ray could beat Floyd Mayweather, Thomas Hearn, Manny Pacquiao, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler and I believe Pryor. If only there was footage of Prime Robinson. Ray was truly the greatest.

Number 3: Henry Armstrong

152–22–9

Why is he on the list? Homicide Hank was truly remarkable, he was a phenomenal fighter back in his time. There were only eight weight division back then and Henry hold all three title simultaneously. Henry won featherweight, lightweight and welterweight title. He would’ve hold four if he wasn’t robbed for the middleweight title. Enough said, Henry would’ve beat modern boxers at any weight. He was called Homicide Hank for a reason.

Number 4: Muhammad Ali

56–5

Why is he on the list? The list won’t be complete without Ali. Muhammad Ali back then was truly remarkable in fact, he was the most complete fighter in the century. Ali is widely considered the number 1 greatest heavyweight of all time but is one of the greatest fighter of all time. Ali was truly the goat, at his prime year, he was something that no one had ever saw, he was the fastest heavyweight ever. Ali fought almost every golden eras and pulled an upset against both feared fighter Sonny Liston and George Foreman. Ali is also the only one who is the 3 time lineal heavyweight champion. Ali at his prime would be favored against any heavyweight.

Number 5: Harry Greb

107–8–3

Why is he on the list? His record speaks for itself. He fought 16 hall of famers and was the only one who defeated Gene Tunney. The Pittsburgh Windmill won over Tunney was something to behold of. I find it interesting that there were not a lot of footage of Harry but if anything, he has the best resume of any fighter.

Number 6: Roberto Duran

103–16

Why is he on the list? Because he should be. He deserve to be in the conversation as one of the best pound for pound ever. Duran is widely considered the number 1 greatest lightweight boxer of all time. Duran was truly a beast at lightweight. He was a fierce puncher who is nicknamed “the hands of stone.” He won titles in four different weight classes and fought in five decades, the 1960s through the 2000s, and he was 50 years old when he fought his last fight. He gave Leonard his first loss. Duran was something special and I believe Duran would’ve been favored over any boxer at lightweight.

Honorable Mentions: Willie Prep, Carlos Monzon, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray leonards, Thomas Hearns, Sam langford, Jack Dempsey, Benny Leonard.

Such lists are completely subjective. I am going to list fighters who may have been forgotten in the mists of time, but are without question superior in accomplishments to the Klitschkos, or many of the modern fighters people list - Jimmy Wilde, Laszlo Papp, and Marcel Cerdan.

CREDIT PICTURE TO FIGHT CITY

The greatest European fighter ever, including British as a part of Europe, is one of the following three:

1. Jimmy Wilde, Great Britain, "the Mighty Atom." An incredible 133-3-1 with 99 KO's, Jimmy Wilde was so frail-looking and pale that he was also nicknamed "The Ghost with a hammer in his hand." His other nicknames included "The Indian Famine" and "The Furious Freak." Wilde has the longest recorded unbeaten streak in boxing history, having gone 104-0.

He was at his best fighting weight at 94 pounds. Historian Gilbert Odd wrote in Boxing News, April 4, 1969: "He came in at a time when flyweights were plentiful and competition extremely high. Never made 8 stone in his fighting life!"
December 18, 1916, Wilde was recognized as the first Flyweight world Champion (his IBU title was only acknowledged in Europe) by beating Giuseppe Di Melfi in the eleventh round.

Ring Magazine, named him both the 3rd greatest puncher of all time, and the greatest flyweight of all time, and rated him as the 13th greatest fighter of the 20th century. In 1990, he was elected to the inaugural class of the International Boxing Hall Of Fame and in 1992, the Welsh Sports Hall of Fame. He was ranked as the top flyweight of all-time by the International Boxing Research Organization in 2006.

In 2014, Jimmy Wilde was voted the Greatest bantamweight ever, an honor bestowed on him by The HBHOF (Houston Boxing Hall Of Fame) – an organization composed of current and former boxer’s.

2. Laszlo Papp, middleweight contender, 27-0-2, with 15 KO's (Hungary). Laszlo was a Hungarian boxer born in Budapest. A three time Olympic Gold Medal winner, in 1948, 1952, and 1956, with an amateur record of 301-12-6, he turned professional in 1957 and immediately began rising in the Middleweight ranks.

Unfortunately, Hungary was a communist country at the time and professional boxing was illegal, and this in time would prove fatal for Papp’s dream of becoming a professional world champion. Papp fought abroad to avoid violating Hungary's restrictions against professional boxing, but when he scheduled a middleweight championship fight in early 1965 against Joey Giardello, (a fight he was heavily favored to win) the Communist Government denied him an exit visa and he never fought again.

A poll in the November 1988 issue of Boxing Illustrated named Papp the second greatest Olympic boxer of all-time. The World Boxing Council named Papp an honorary world champion in 1989, and designated him the "world's best amateur and professional fighter of all-time" in 1991. (WBC President Jose Sulaiman's handwritten words). Papp was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 2001.

Papp is one of the few professional boxers in history to ever retire undefeated in the ring.

3. -Marcel Cerdan, middleweight champion, who was 113-4, with 66KO's is
considered by many to be not only France’s greatest boxer but high on any top 10 list of great European boxers.

On September 21, 1948, Cerdan met World Middleweight Champion Tony Zale in Jersey City, New Jersey, and dominated the "Man of Steel" winning by a twelfth-round TKO. After two non-title wins, Cerdan lost the crown on June 16, 1949 to Jake LaMotta via a tenth-round TKO. Cerdan, who dislocated his right shoulder when the two fell to the canvas during a first-round scuffle, fought with his right arm completely useless until he retired in his corner after the tenth round.

En route to America for a rematch with LaMotta later that fall, Cerdan was killed when his plane crashed in the Azores.

Cerdan is a member, along with his contemporaries LaMotta and Zale, of the International Boxing Hall of Fame. Boxing historian Herbert Goldman ranked Cerdan as the fifth best middleweight of all-time, while the Associated Press ranked Cerdan as the ninth best middleweight of the 20th century. Ring Magazine ranked Cerdan as the eleventh greatest middleweight of all-time.

And I will list one modern fighter, who, for reasons unknown, often does not get his due on this site:

Lennox "the Lion" Lewis Lennox Lewis, 41-2-1 with 32 KO's (England). Lennox was the last undisputed world heavyweight champion. With dual British and Canadian citizenship, as an amateur in 1988 he won Olympic Gold Medal at the 1988 Games.

Lewis is regarded as an all time heavyweight great, having beaten the best heavyweights of his era like Riddick Bowe, (as an amateur), Shannon Briggs, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson and Vitali Klitschko as a professional. Of the two men who upset him, both occurred before his partnership with Emmanuel Steward, and he avenged both by giving both Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall savage beatings in their rematches.

Though known as a cautious, highly technical boxer, Lewis recorded five first-round knockouts and 15 knockouts within three rounds.

Lewis defeated every professional opponent he faced, one of only three World Heavyweight Champions to do so, with Rocky Marciano and Ingemar Johansson being the other two. Gene Tunney and Riddick Bowe avenged their professional defeats, but Tunney had a no-contest, a draw and a number of no-decision fights against boxers he never defeated, and Bowe had a no-contest against Buster Mathis Jr., whom he never defeated. Three fighters retired after losses to Lewis, Andrew Gerrard, Noel Quarless and Zeljko Mavrovic.

The Lion has a record of 3-0-1 (2 KO's) against International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees, and is undefeated against his fellow Hall of Fame members. He himself is a member of the International Hall of Fame.

Who is considered the greatest boxer of all time? Why?

Experts as well as the best informed fans generally narrow the best boxers down to Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali.

Ray Robinson was a perfectly skilled right handed ringman who fought out of the orthodox stance. He was quick of foot and hand, a great defender, loaded with stamina, took a good punch, and hit with enormous power as a welterweight and periodically as a middleweight. He was capable of fighting any style, jabbing and moving, or wading in to destroy the opposition with hooks and uppercuts. His record was 174–19, with 109 KOs, and only one KO loss against light heavyweight champion Joey Maxim. The Sugarman wilted in extreme heat, not from the punches of the pillow-punching champ. Before Robinson’s exit in that fight, the heat had already KOed the referee, Ruby Goldstein.

The 19 losses are very misleading. Robinson was 49–0 before losing his first fight to the bigger Jake LaMotta, and 128–1–2 before losing the middleweight championship to Randy Turpin. He also faced much bigger men as a middleweight, and kept fighting long after age robbed him of his skills. He is almost inarguably the greatest welterweight of all time.

Muhammad Ali is the only boxer commonly considered as a challenger for recognition as the greatest of all time pound for pound. Ali had skills similar to Robinson’s but a different style. He was a right handed fighter with hands faster than Robinson’s, even though he was a heavyweight. He had lightning footwork, and the unorthodox habit of keeping his hands low, but relying on his agility and reflexes to lean away from punches. The younger Ali danced around the ring, flicking his jab, and lead right to weaken his opponents, then moved in to throw heavier leather, and finish them off with hooks and uppercuts when they were hurt. For some reason he hardly ever threw a body punch. He relied on the accumulation of blows to score KOs in most of his bouts, never having the crushing power of Robinson as a welterweight.

Ali’s style changed after he had lost almost four years of his prime due to a conviction for refusing to allow himself to be drafted into military service. He returned to action when the conviction was finally overturned, but had lost some of his foot speed and stamina needed to dance the entire fight. Instead, he outlasted opponents by trading punches with them, relying on his defense, and incredibly sturdy jaw. In this mode he earned a winning record against the best heavyweights in what is recognized as the Golden Age of Heavyweights. He finished his career at 65–5, with 37 KOs, and one loss by TKO. The TKO was against Larry Holmes when Ali had lost his great skills. So were two other losses, one to Leon Spinks, which he avenged, and to Trevor Berbick in his last fight.

The brief review above does not settle the question who was the greatest, Muhammad Ali, or Ray Robinson, or perhaps another fighter, like Floyd Mayweather, as his most ardent fans say. There is no indisputable way of settling the question. Robinson receives the nod for having such an unmatchable record as a welterweight, and Ali for his early untouchable brilliance, and for his dominance over the best heavyweight field of all time.

My personal choice is Ali, not only for his boxing exploits, but as the indisputably most remarkable personality ever to step foot into a professional ring. A natural entertainer, he promoted his fights by giving his opponents comical nicknames, and by using poetry to predict the round in which he would win. The man could easily have been a professional comedian. He even played the piano, and deftly performed a number of magic tricks. He was also a major early critic of the American Vietnam War effort. He transcended boxing so thoroughly, that he became the most recognized person in the world. There will never be another Ali, in or out of the ring.

There is no certain way to answer this question, so anyone who disagrees with any of these choices, or their ranking is welcome to his own list. First, we must determine what makes a fighter great. At least let us restrict this list purely to activities in the ring. Total domination of a tough division for a moderate to long period of time makes a fighter a candidate. A very long period of domination, even against a second rate division also quaifies, as does stellar performance in a number of different weight divisions.

1. Muhammad Ali was the most dominant fighter in the almost universally acclaimed golden age of heavyweights. Though he lost some fights before age and illness eroded his skills, before that he had a winning record against all his opponents, which included some of the most fearsome fighters of all time. He had fast hands, nimble feet, enough stamina to fight for hours, and one of the greatest jaws the sport has ever seen. As great as he was, he would have been so much better if he had not lost almost four years of his prime due to being banned from boxing for conviction of refusing to serve in the Army. Ali was so unique a personality that he would have been great if he had no athletic talent. He was long the most recognized and well loved man on the planet.
2. Sugar Ray Robinson dominated the welterweght division as no one ever ruled any division. He was 40–1 after losing his first fight to Jake LaMotta. After his next loss to Randy Turpin, he was 128–2–2. He ultimately ended up losing 19 of his 200 fights, but that was due to fighting way past his expiration date in what today would be two divisions above his starting weight. Besides holding the welterweight title, he won the middle weight jewel several times, and missed taking the light heavyweight belt from Joey Maxim when he collapsed from heat exhaustion. Robinson could slug, box smoothly behind an educated jab, or counterpunch. Many still consider him the standard by which to measure other boxers, even though he last fought almost 53 years ago.
3. Roberto Duran, the “Hands of Stone,” was inarguably the greatest of all lightweights. His only loss in his natural division was a decision to Esteban De Jesus, which he twice avenged with KOs. He was 72–2 after his loss to Ray Leonard in their second fight. He was a head-snapping KO puncher as a lightweight, but had a deceptively good defense. One of his most remarkable achievements was knocking out the much younger Davey Moore to win the super middelweight championship. He also won the middleweight title from Iran Barkely, though he did lose several fights after leaving the lightweight division. He was 50 years of age when he finally hung up his gloves.
4. Joe Louis ruled over the heavyweight division for 12 years. Although he did not have a defining fight with a really great heavyweight, he did battle Max Schmeling in perhaps the most socially significant bout in history. That fight made him a hero to all races. Louis was a well discipline boxer, whose combinations nearly decapitated his victims.
5. Marvelous Marvin Hagler is generally acclaimed to be the greatest middleweight of all time, or second by those who place Carlos Monzon ahead of him. Hagler was a steel chinned lefty with a technically flawless style and a relentless drive to finish all his fights early. The only official knockdown he suffered was a slip, and he was never stopped. The caretaker titilists early in his career ducked him, but when he finally won the middleweight belt by KO, it seemed that he would take it into retirement with him. He defended it 12 times, 11 by KO. He lost his final fight, a questionable decision to Ray Leonard. Hagler was not a great favorite of boxing journalists, but hard core boxing insiders know that there was no one better.
6. Ray Leonard was a darling of the public and the fans before he became a professional boxer. He had won Olympic Gold, and became one of the greatest professionals of all time. At welterweight, he was fast and powerful. His handsome features only thinly masked a relentless assassin bent on victory no matter what he had to do. He continued to collect belts and dazzle opponents as he invaded higher weight divisions, although he did not dominate so thoroughly as he had at welterweight. He had a winning record against the greatest fighters of his time, Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, and Marvin Hagler, but his draw against Hearns (against a victory) was an outright robbery of Hearns, and his decision over Hagler very questionable. Leonard would have undoubtedly accomplished more in boxing had it not been for two retinal tears.
7. George Foreman’s first pro boxing career was marred only by a KO loss to Ali and a decision to Jimmy Young. A former street thug, he quickly rose in the amateurs as a teen to win the gold medal in the heavyweight division in 1968. He tore through professional heavyweights, leaving dazed victims in his wake all the way to the championship against the murderous punching Joe Frazier. Foreman knocked him down six times in two rounds, to win the championship. He lost it by KO to the great Muhammad Ali, the only such loss in his 81 fight career. Most shockingly, he returned to the ring ten years after he retired, and won the championship a second time, knocking young, undefeated champion Michael Moorer cold with a perfectly timed right 20 years after he had lost the title to Muhammad Ali. Foreman was 45 at the time, the oldest fighter ever to win the heavyweight title. After losing it to Shannon Briggs on a very bad decision, he finally hung up his gloves for the last time. He had won 76 fights, 68 by KO and lost six. Foreman always referred to himself as a boxer, not a fighter. He did have an under-rated jab, very heavy hands, terrific timing, a granite chin, and perhaps the best ability anyone had to cut off the ring. He is clearly one of the greatest of all time.
8. Harry Greb lacked nothing in the ring, except a hard punch. He was known as the Pittsburgh Windmill because of his swarming style. He also did not mind elbowing, hitting below the belt, rabbit punching, or tripping his opponents. His final record was 107–8–3. Just under half his victories were by KO. One of only two KO losses he suffered was early his career when he took on an opponent who outweighed him by dozens of pounds. The other was a TKO when due to a fractured radius bone, he could not continue. He was 33–9–6 against an impressive lineup of the Hall of Famers he faced. He is the only man to beat Gene Tunney. Most amazingly, Greb fought much of his career totally blind in his right eye due to a torn retina suffered in one of his fights. He died at the age of only 32 from complications of surgery for his bad eyes and injuries suffered in car accidents. There are still vaunted boxing experts who think he was the greatest of all time.
9. Henry Armstrong, known as “Homicide Hank,” finished his career with a record of 152–21–9. He scored 101 KOs, and lost that way only twice. He has an accomplishment that will never be matched. He held the featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight titles at the same time. He defended the welterweight title 18 times. At one point from 1937 to 1938, he knocked out 22 consecutive opponents. There are still experts today who think that Homicide Hank was the greatest of them all.
10. Floyd Mayweather Jr. was a fast, yet exciting fighter who knocked out most of his lightweight opponents. As he climbed into heavier weight divisions the KOs diminished, but his skill did not. He won many of the later fights in his career with perhaps the best defense any fighter ever had, and by slyly fighting in spurts at the end of each round. He is currently 50–0, with 27 KOs. He has never been knocked down or out, and rocked hard only a few times in his entire career. Fighting in Los Vegas, he has been given the nod in all of his close fights. The victory over Luis Castillo in their first fight was a gift in a fight that he had clearly lost. Nevertheless, his stellar record against a long list of very good to great fighters makes Mayweather the greatest of his era and one of the greatest of all time.
    
    If I were to compile this list tomorrow, it might not be the same as it is today. Some of the fighters might shift in rank, and one or two might be replaced. Nevertheless, the list overall should be a decent reflection of the greatest fighters ever to step into the ring.

The only one you need to know is John Lineker.

Unfortunately….. He’s off to ONE.

Now there are plenty of fights where brawling happens but brawlers in general? Not many as that age is going away because of the side effects after their MMA career.

Yes he “Was” .. until a kid from Louisville came along .

He wasn’t Lying

The are 4 good candidates for the role (in chronological order):

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Bob Foster
4. Michael Spinks

Roy Jones Junior is pretty good bet, but he is not true light heavy (more like supermiddleweight boxer) and his opposition level is too low.

Also the was Bob Fitzsimmons, but the are very few tapes of his fights.

Eddy Gregory have incredebly big potential but he never come close to its realisation.

My bet is Bob Foster. Do to size and style he was almost unbeatable at his weight: very, very hard to outbox and incredibly hard to outfight without being smashed with devastaiting punches. He have longest and hardest jab in history of that weight class, possibly the hardest one-punch power (at least in one legue with Fitzsimmons), and very good defense.

The most elusive boxers in history are those who were hard to hit cleanly and effectively. Such elusiveness can be due to footwork, foot speed, hand speed, reflexes and/or anticipation. The best defensive boxers combine these traits…

1. Willie Pep was called the “Will o’ the Wisp” because he was so difficult to hit. Arguably the greatest featherweight of all time, Pep won his first 62 fights, lost to Sammy Angott, then went undefeated in his next 73 fights, for a 134-1-1 record! Pep finished his professional boxing career with a record of 229-11-1.
   
   Before a 1946 match with Jackie Graves, who was no slouch, Pep told reporters: “Watch me, I'm going to win the third round without throwing a single punch.” In the third round Pep avoided every punch Graves threw while making him look ridiculous. All three judges scored the round for Pep! While the story sounds fanciful, the esteemed Burt Sugar reported it as factual in his Ultimate Book of Boxing Lists.
   
   “Fighting Willie Pep is like trying to stamp out a grass fire.” — Kid Campeche
   
   “He’s in front of you, in back of you. He’s all over the damn place. But he never stood toe to toe with you.” — Pat Marcune
   
   “You can see him, but you can’t hit him.” — Joe Louis
   
   “Sweet Pea had an unorthodox southpaw style coupled with an almost supernatural ability to avoid punches.” — Rob King
   
   The best defensive fighters create offense from their defense. This will be a theme of this ranking and we will encounter other great counter-punchers here. Willie Pep was an all-time great counter-puncher, as far as landing punches and scoring points. But some of the great counter-punchers could knock you out with a single blow, as the next fighter on this list did to the great Sonny Liston in their second fight…
2. Muhammad Ali in his prime was incredibly fast for a heavyweight with his hands, feet and reflexes. In fact, Ali may have had the fastest hands of any boxer in any weight class. Ali often fought with his hands low and used his catlike quickness and reflexes to dodge his opponents’ punches (as in the opening image). When Ali knocked out Sonny Liston in their second fight, the punch came from beneath Liston’s field of vision and was so blindingly fast that it became known as the “phantom punch.” But in reality it was the result of defense turning into offense in a split second … or less.
   
   “Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.” — Muhammad Ali
   
   “You can't hit him, you just cannot hit him! I threw hooks, I threw uppercuts, I missed them all! Hell, I couldn't even land a jab!” — Cleveland Williams
   
   “You can't hit him! But he sure can hit you!" — Zora Folley
   
   Ali invented the rope-a-dope and was the master of the back-peddle knock-out. His ability to change tactics in the middle of a fight made him a hard boxer to solve. If you figured him out, he would metamorphose before your eyes. And his iron chin and iron torso were important components of his defense. Ken Norton said hitting Ali was like hitting concrete.
   
   I think Ali’s defense has been underrated. While he has been criticized for keeping his hands low, that was a key to his great counter-punching. Ali’s opponents often didn’t see the counterpunch coming until it was too late, if they ever saw it at all. The best defense transforms into offense and Ali could, indeed, transmogrify from an unhittable butterfly into a stinging bee in an eyeblink. And that is why Ali dominated the Golden Age of Heavyweights. It all started with his defense and opponents failing to land punches, which left them off-balance and vulnerable to blindingly fast counters. They may have been, at times, unorthodox counters, but consider the results.
3. “Sweet Pea” Pernell Whitaker was an exceptionally slippery southpaw. Sweet Pea’s opponents may have thought they were boxing a teflon-coated eel, he was that hard to hit cleanly!
   
   Oscar De La Hoya was the only boxer who fought both Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Pernell Whitaker. And even though Whitaker was well past his prime when he fought De La Hoya, while Mayweather was in his prime, the Golden Boy said Whitaker was better defensively, in a class of his own.
   
   Pernell Whitaker was like the Marvel hero Mr. Fantastic in his plastic-man-like ability to contort his body and dodge punches.
4. Nicolino Locche was nicknamed El Intocable (“The Untouchable”). There is no higher praise for a great defensive boxer. He was a master of slipping punches on the ropes. You could corner him, but it wouldn’t do you any good. Locche used the shoulder roll and his preternatural reflexes to make opponents miss, and miss, and miss again…
   
   “Slicker than a buttered otter, Locche made some very good fighters look like drunken factory workers trying to take a swing at the doorman.” — Jo Kane
5. Wilfred Benitez was nicknamed “El Radar” for his uncanny anticipation. Sugar Ray Leonard paid Benitez a tremendous compliment when he said that “no-one, I mean no-one, can make me miss like that!”
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr. was a great defensive boxer. Indeed, many boxing experts and fans consider “Money” Mayweather to have been the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Others will opine that “Money” avoided fighting the best boxers in their primes and wasn’t fully tested.
   
   Mayweather was famous for his shoulder roll and sometimes looked like a turtle peeking out from its invulnerable armor. This odd-looking defense is called the Philly Shell because it was employed and evangelized by a Philadelphian boxer and trainer, George Benton, who is also in this ranking.
   
   Mayweather was a great counter-puncher with excellent accuracy, so his defense led to much of his offense. In his article on the great counter-punchers Briggs Seekins praised Mayweather’s “clever, jolting counters.”
   
   According to CompuBox, Mayweather connected on 46% of his punches, compared to only 16% by his opponents, giving him an amazing +30% differential. I will call this stat PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential). Mayweather’s OTCP (Opponents’ Total Connect Percentage) was 16.1% and the best since Compubox started tracking punches. But please keep in mind that we don’t have complete stats for great defensive fighters of the past like Willie Pep and Sugar Ray Robinson.
7. James “Lights Out” Toney was a master of slipping punches. He was also known for his shoulder roll. Freddie Roach considered Toney to have been the most naturally gifted boxer of all time. Toney was primarily a counter-puncher and he countered a LOT. Toney is the only boxer to land over 400 punches in title fights four times. Toney used the “Philly Shell” as well as it's ever been used in the ring” “seamlessly flowing from defense to attack with his elusive in-fighting and devastating counter shots.” In an online poll by BOXRAW, Toney was second only to Floyd Mayweather as a master of the shoulder roll.
8. Sugar Ray Robinson was a master of both offense and defense. His defensive artistry included the ability to slip and evade punches. And he was a devastating counter-puncher with both hands.
9. Joe Louis is second all-time with a +26 PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential). Great defense and great counter-punching are big reasons why.
10. George Benton was a master of the shoulder roll. He hailed from Philadelphia and the defensive technique became known as the Philly Shell. Benton has been called the “Godfather of the Philly Shell.” The boxers he trained or otherwise advised include Pernell Whitaker, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield, Leon Spinks, Meldrick Taylor and Mike McCallum. Benton was the first great defensive boxer mentioned in an article by Fayz Boxing on the subject. In an online poll by BOXRAW, Benton was tied for third as a master of the shoulder roll with his pupil Pernell “Sweet Pea” Whitaker. And Benton probably would rank higher if he were as well known as the other members of the top four: Floyd Mayweather, Whitaker and James Toney.
11. Charley Burley was a great defensive boxer and savage counter-puncher. The legendary trainer Eddie Futch called Burley the greatest all-round fighter he had ever seen and the legendary Archie Moore (himself a master of defense and counter-punching) called Burley the best boxer he ever fought.
12. Archie Moore was nicknamed the “Old Mongoose” for a reason. Cobras will testify that a mongoose is impossible to hit. And, as Briggs Seekins observed, “Moore used a shoulder roll and a cross-arm guard to make himself nearly impregnable defensively. And just as the mongoose draws the cobra forward, to its own doom, Moore would lead his opponents into perfect position for his dangerous power shots.” Seekins also rates Archie Moore as the #1 counter-puncher of all time, with a stunning 131 knockouts. In this case the proof is in the pudding. The wily Old Mongoose was a pioneer of what would come to be known as the shoulder roll. If he didn’t invent the shoulder roll, Moore perfected it.
13. Jersey Joe Walcott gave Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano real problems with his defensive wizardry. He was a master of the shoulder roll and used his unorthodox footwork to confound opponents.
14. Roy Jones Jr. had almost superhuman speed in his prime and was hard to find, much less hit. He was gone before the punch arrived.
15. Sugar Ray Leonard is fourth all-time with a +13% PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential).
16. Roberto Duran is fifth all-time with a +8% PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential).
17. Marvelous Marvin Hagler is third all-time with a +17% PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential).
18. Joe Calzaghe was faster and slicker than Roy Jones Jr. according to some boxing experts. When they finally met in the ring, Calzaghe put on a boxing clinic and won the fight. However, Jones was no longer at his best when they met, so I still give Jones the defensive edge. If you disagree, please let me know in the comments.
19. Ezzard Charles was known for his slick defense and skillful employment of the shoulder roll.
20. Jack Johnson
21. Gene Tunney, nicknamed "The Fighting Marine," was one of the all-time great ring technicians. He combined a terrific jab and lateral movement with tremendous counter punching. Tunney was one of boxing’s first “sweet scientists” — a highly-skilled technician who didn’t rely on brute force to defeat great boxers like Jack Dempsey and Harry Greb.
22. Henry Armstrong
23. Andre Ward is tied for third among recent boxers with a +15% PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential). His 22% OTCP (Opponents’ Total Connect Percentage) is also very good.
24. Juan Manuel Marquez was a master of the side-step and “fighting in a telephone booth.” He was also a great counter-puncher, as Manny Pacquiao learned when Marquez sent him to dreamland.
25. Benny Leonard was a highly skilled boxer known for his defensive wizardry.
26. Jimmy Young was suggested by Aberkane Idriss in the comments. George Foreman was unable to solve Young’s tricky defense and Muhammad Ali was stymied by Young’s speed and unconventional tactics, although Ali managed to win on points. However, Ken Norton called it a draw and others thought Young had won.
27. Dmitry Pirog
28. Bernard Hopkins was a master of boxing’s darker arts, a modern Fritzie Zivic.
29. Sam Langford
30. Vasyl Lomachenko aka “The Matrix” has great anticipation and footwork. Thus Lomachenko is able to slip and slide away from danger, leaving his opponent feeling like he’s boxing a shadow. Lomachenko’s +20.9 PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential) is second only to Floyd Mayweather Jr. for recent boxers. His OTCP (Opponents’ Total Connect Percentage) is an excellent 18.3%.
31. Guillermo “El Chacal” Rigondeaux is a two-time Olympic gold medallist who is very hard to hit cleanly. He has great footwork and can make his opponents look silly at times. His OTCP (Opponents’ Total Connect Percentage) is an excellent 16.7% that is the closest I have seen to Mayweather’s 16.1%.
32. Larry Holmes used his excellent jab to keep other boxers at bay.
33. Smokin’ Joe Frazier had great head movement. His “bob and weave” style made him hard to hit cleanly and allowed him to move in close for thunderous left hooks and pulverizing body shots. Joe Frazier was nominated by both Ed Elford and Ricardo Stocchetti Stocchetti in the comments.
34. Iron Mike Tyson was another “bob and weave” boxer with great head movement. He has been underrated as a great defensive boxer when he was training rather than partying nonstop.
35. Evander Holyfield was the best counter-puncher he ever faced, according to Mike Tyson.
36. Stanley Ketchel was nicknamed the “Michigan Assassin” but he was an excellent defensive boxer as well. Ketchel has been compared to Manny Pacquiao.
37. Manny Pacquiao has a +11% PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential). That makes him #8 among recent boxers, by my count. However, Manny gets hit a lot, dropping him in this ranking.
38. Harold Johnson
39. Canelo Alvarez
40. Gennady Golovkin is tied for third among recent boxers with a +15.1 PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential).
41. Julio Cesar Chavez
42. Vitali Klitschko is fifth among recent boxers with a +13 PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential).
43. Wladimir Klitschko
44. Terence Crawford is sixth among recent boxers with a +12.1 PMPD (Plus/Minus Punch Differential) and has a good 20.9% OTCP (Opponents’ Total Connect Percentage).
45. Nonito Donaire
46. Rocky Marciano has been underrated for his defense, perhaps because his offense was so overpowering. You don’t go 49-0 and retire undefeated without a good defense.
47. Marcos Maidana used his jab and “erratic angles” to keep his fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr. close by disrupting the Money Man’s greatest offensive weapon: his counter-punching. We have to salute a boxer who can counter a counter!
48. Ronald “Winky” Wright is known for his “peek-a-boo” boxing style.
49. Marco Antonio Barrera
50. “Prince” Naseem Hamed

HONORABLE MENTION: Demetrius Andrade, Dmitry Bivol, Timothy Bradley, Chris Byrd, Hector “Macho” Camacho, “Gentleman” Jim Corbett, Donald Curry, George Dixon, “Peerless” Jim Driscoll, Johnny Famechon, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tyson Fury, Mikey Garcia, Erislandy Lara, Miguel Lora, Tommy Loughran, Erik Morales, Eusebio Pedroza, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Michael Spinks, Shakur Stevenson, Holman Williams, Hilario Zapata

Chris Byrd was nominated in the comments by Derek Hallett.

Jack Dempsey was suggested by Ricardo Stocchetti Stocchetti in the comments.

Have I forgotten anyone really good? If so, please let me know in the comments and I’ll credit you here.

THE BEST COUNTER-PUNCHERS OF ALL TIME
by Michael R. Burch

1. Sugar Ray Robinson was a brutal counter-puncher with knockout power in both hands. Ask Jake LaMotta. The original Sugar Ray is Briggs Seekins’ #2 counter-puncher of all time.
2. Archie Moore was nicknamed the “Old Mongoose” both for his elusiveness on defense and his devastating quick strike ability. Ask any cobra why a mongoose is a formidable enemy and the answer will be, “You can’t hit it, then it rips you to shreds!” Archie Moore is Briggs Seekins’ #1 counter-puncher of all time.
3. Muhammad Ali is underrated as a counter-puncher. Ask Sonny Liston after their second fight. Ali kept his hands low, so that opponents often couldn’t see his counters coming until it was too late. And Ali had the fastest hands of all time. Also, his punching power has been underrated. In his prime Ali strung together knockout after knockout. Like many boxers he lost speed and power as he aged, but in his prime Ali knocked out Archie Moore, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley and the iron-chinned Oscar Bonavena. In his prime Ali had a string of 23 fights in which he was undefeated with 21 knockouts. After he returned from a 3 1/2 year layoff, Ali was no longer the same fighter, in terms of speed, but in his prime he was “lights out” as in knocking other boxers’ lights out.
4. Gene Tunney
5. Roberto Duran was nicknamed the “Man with Hands of Stone” which tells us something about his punching power for his weight. Duran was especially good at coming forward, avoiding his opponents’ punches, then countering. He was also good at countering to the body when opponents lunged at him.
6. James Toney was primarily a counter-puncher and he countered a LOT. Jame “Lights Out” Toney is the only boxer to land over 400 punches in title fights four times. And he did, indeed, turn out the lights for other boxers on many occasions.
7. Juan Manuel Marquez is a name that comes up frequently in discussions about the great counter-punchers. One boxing fan called him “a beast of a counter puncher.” Manny Pacquiao would agree, I’m sure.
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr. was a great counter-puncher but he lacked the power of some of the other boxers in this ranking. However, one boxing fan observed that in Mayweather’s fights with Juan Manuel Marquez and Canelo Alvarez, he out-countered the counter punchers. Another fan noted that “Nobody beats Floyd at his own game.” Mayweather was hard to hit and faster with his counters, giving him the advantage over heavier hitters.
9. Charley Burley was a great defensive boxer and savage counter-puncher. The legendary trainer Eddie Futch called Burley the greatest all-round fighter he had ever seen and the legendary boxer Archie Moore (a master of defense and counter-punching) called Burley the best boxer he ever fought.
10. Joe Gans was nicknamed the “Old Master” and he was a pioneer of counter-punching and using slips, parries and shoulder rolls to avoid punches. He also pioneered the use of the left jab as a defensive measure and a distraction.
11. Roy Jones Jr. would counter with combinations: double left hooks, double right hands, etc.
12. Benny Leonard was the most cerebral boxer of all time, according to The Fight City. Ray Arcel called Leonard the best boxer he ever saw, citing his ability to make his opponents do exactly what they didn’t want to do: “If you were a counter-puncher, he would make you lead,” said the legendary trainer. “If you were aggressive, he would make you back up.”
13. Joe Louis
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Mike Tyson was a great counter-puncher in his prime with truly devastating power.
17. Evander Holyfield was the best counter-puncher he ever faced, according to Iron Mike Tyson.
18. Willie Pep was a great counter-puncher but lacked the power of some of the other boxers in this ranking.
19. Pernell Whitaker aka “Sweet Pea”
20. Wilfred Benitez was nicknamed “El Radar” for his uncanny anticipation. He would anticipate a punch, avoid it, then counter. Sugar Ray Leonard paid Benitez a tremendous compliment when he said that “no-one, I mean no-one, can make me miss like that!”
21. Guillermo Rigondeaux
22. Jose Napoles
23. Billy Conn
24. Manny Pacquiao would sometimes counter with rapid-fire combinations. Counter-punching became a bigger part of his arsenal as he matured as a boxer.
25. Bernard Hopkins
26. Canelo Alvarez is one of the best active counter-punchers.
27. Joe Joyce
28. Terence Crawford
29. Nicolino Locche
30. Mike "The Body Snatcher" McCallum
31. Kostya Tszyu
32. Antonio Margarito
33. Erik Morales

In online discussions the names that keep coming up include Floyd Mayweather Jr., Juan Manuel Marquez, James Toney, Archie Moore, Muhammad Ali, and Pernell Whitaker.

OBSERVATIONS FROM THE COMMENTS

Ed Elford wrote in the comments: ‘I've read (Cox's Corner is one place) that Joe Frazier had the best “slip and duck” rate of any heavyweight. I could not find a primary source, but have read that Angelo Dundee cited Ali as saying that no one made him miss more than Joe Frazier. I do remember Joe being a “bobbing and weaving” fool on his way in to wreck ribs with left hooks…haha!’

Ricardo Stocchetti Stocchetti suggested Tony Zale, Tony Canzoneri, Jake LaMotta, Carlos Monzon, Sandy Saddler, Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, James J. Braddock and Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

Jimmy Young was suggested by Aberkane Idriss in the comments.

Arturo Gatti was suggested by Jamie Lacson in the comments, as a joke!

Franklin Ciofalo observed: “Willie Pep, former featherweight champ, is number one. No one else is close. Willie would still be champ if it wasn't for Sandy Saddler, who was a featherweight freak.”

#BOXER #BOXERS #BOXING #DEFENSE #ELUSIVE #MRBBOXER #MRBBOXERS #MRBBOXING #MRBDEFENSE #MRBELUSIVE #MRBRANK

9.2K views on 5–13–2023, 5.6K views on 1–5–2023

There are only two possibilities for greatest light heavyweight of all time.

Ezzard Charles, who never held the light heavyweight title, nor fought for it, is generally considered by all experts to be the greatest light heavyweight who ever lived.

And Archie Moore, the Old Mongoose, who was the greatest light heavyweight who was ever champion, and that includes Gene Tunney.

CREDIT PICTURE BOXING 360

Let me explain why Gene Tunney is not in the discussion. Tunney only won the heavyweight title because Jack Dempsey had not fought in 3 years, and had been living the fat and Hollywood life. He only defended that title twice, once against Jack Dempsey, and the second against a hand picked journeyman so he could win and retire.

Further, many of Tunney’s fights were not against light heavyweights, but against middleweights and under.

Tunney would cheerfully admit later in his 1932 book A Man Must Fight that he felt his skills were eroding, but he wanted one title defense against someone not named Jack Dempsey, so after the second Dempsey fight, he picked an easy fight, against New Zealander Tom Heeney. He fought and defeated him in July of 1928, and retired.

Finally, Tunney never once fought a Black Man. Some claim he made an offer to fight 38 year old Harry Wills, but the indisputable fact is, Tunney never, in his entire career, fought a Black man, ever.

Why then is Charles rated as the best light heavyweight in history if he never won the title?

Although he is ranked by many as the greatest light heavyweight champion in boxing history, Archie Moore has to be placed behind a man who was never champion of the world at 175 pounds, Ezzard Charles, “The Cincinnati Cobra.” The reason above all others is the fact that three times he bested the legendary Moore in a series of fights in the 1940’s. Not only that, but he actually KO’d “The Ol’ Mongoose” in the final bout of their trilogy, all fought at light heavyweight. If that doesn’t make Ezzard the finest fighter ever at light heavyweight, then nothing else does.

Charles was the 175 pound division’s finest practitioner and the two decision defeats, (and both were overwhelming), and his KO over Moore pretty much proves it in the eyes of virtually all boxing historians.

Ezzard Charles, “The Cincinnati Cobra,” started fighting as a middleweight right before WW2. When he returned, he began campaigning as a light heavyweight, and he defeated an incredible 8 Hall of Fame fighters in 20 fights, Joe Louis, Teddy Yarosz, Charley Burley twice, Lloyd Marshall twice, Jersey Joe Walcott twice, Archie Moore three times, Jimmy Bivins four times, and Joey Maxim five times.

But Charles could not get a shot at the light heavyweight title, so he moved to heavyweight where the money for regular fights was better, and a title shot easier to come by.

Though Charles in his prime never weighed more than 185 pounds, and was without question a natural middle or light heavyweight, he was named Ring Fighter of the Year for 1949 and 1950, the greatest light heavyweight of all-time by Ring in 1994 and 2002, the 11th greatest heavyweight of all-time by Ring in 1998 and the 13th best fighter pound for pound of the last 80 years by The Ring in 2002.

Charles was inducted into Ring Boxing Hall of Fame in 1970, the World Boxing Hall of Fame in 1983, and the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990.

Considering that he had amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), commonly known as Lou Gehrig's Disease, which killed him on May 28, 1975, his career was all the more incredible. Charles said he first noticed the ailment in 1955. "After a guy hit me, I didn't seem to be able to get away," he said, "I didn't have the same coordination."

However modern physicians believe it probably was affecting him to some degree at least five years earlier - meaning he had a deadly nerve disease during the time he defeated Joe Louis by a fifteen-round unanimous decision on September 27, 1950, to gain universal recognition as World Heavyweight Champion, and during the time he made eight successful title defenses.

Also when he twice bitterly fought Rocky Marciano for the title, in fights Rocky called the "hardest and toughest of my career."

Charles is, to me, the unquestioned greatest light heavyweight of all time, and one of the top 20 all time greatest heavyweights.

Archie Moore, while second to Charles, is, in fact, the all time greatest light heavyweight champion.

The "Old Mongoose" also started his career as a middleweight. He is the only man in history to be ranked as the No. 1 contender in three different weight divisions: middleweight in 1942, light heavyweight in 1950, and heavyweight in 1955.

Nonetheless, he never got a title shot in any weight class until he was 36 years old. Moore defeated Joey Maxim by a fifteen-round unanimous decision to win the World Light Heavyweight Championship on December 17, 1952, four days after his thirty-sixth birthday. (he finally got a title shot when the promoters thought he was too old to win - he sure fooled them on that!)

Archie Moore challenged Rocky Marciano for the World Heavyweight Championship on September 21, 1955 in Marciano's last defense of the title. The Mongoose dropped Marciano with a right in the second round, but Marciano came back and knocked Moore out in the ninth round. Moore also fought Floyd Patterson for the vacant World Heavyweight Championship on November 30, 1956, and was knocked out in the fifth round. He was days away from his 40th birthday.

He remained undisputed light heavyweight champion until 1960, when he was 44, and retained a part of the title until 1962, when he was 46!

Moore was voted the 1958 Boxing Writers Association of America "Fighter of the Year," was inducted into World Boxing Hall of Fame in 1980, the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990, and was voted "Light Heavyweight Fighter of the Century" by The Associated Press in 1999. Ring ranked Moore as the second greatest light heavyweight of all-time to Ezzard Charles, and Ring ranked Moore as the fourteenth best fighter of the last 80 years, and the fourth greatest puncher of all-time in 2003.

CREDIT:

Boxrec stats, records, rankings

Archie Moore...The Ole Mongoose: The Authorized Biography Of Archie Moore, Undefeated Light Heavyweight Champion Of The World by Marilyn Douroux

Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life by Williams Dettloff

As far as being very, very strong, George was. But as far as maximizing his strength, he did not. Almost like nobody taught him the science of punching or he did not listen. Case in point, Earnie Shavers(probably gets the most votes for best puncher of all time) and Frazier, even, had more ONE PUNCH POWER than George. Ali said Frazier hit harder than George! Although George was bigger and stronger fighter, it would take him several punches to put a fighter down and they almost always got up. Look at the Frazier fights; count the number of punches it took for Joe to go down each time. This was a recurring theme in Foreman fights.

He's was middle of the pack with punching power when compared to other power fighters, but he came with a RELENTLESS swarm of punches that could last 5-8 rounds depending on whether he could hit you or not. That's a long time to just be getting punched only being stopped by the bell! If he could hit you, then he could go 8 rounds. If not, he'd get tired quicker and it would be like 5 rounds! And, he only needed 4 Rounds MAX before Ali, because only 3 out 40 could escape the Foreman KO/TKO barrage!

On the other hand, he had a couple of things that would give him a chance to beat almost everyone he could possibly fight: 1. He was so long that he was great at cutting the ring off(getting to a fighter quickly and forcing them into a slugfest). 2. If his opponent had a defensive flaw, then George was going to win unless you were Louis(Louis did not lose to wild fighters)*. IF YOU HAD A DEFENSIVE FLAW, HE WAS GOING TO BATTER YOU INTO SUBMISSION BY AN ACCUMULATION OF PUNISHMENT IN HIS YOUNG YEARS. George Foreman compiled a record a of 76-5! Ali's was 56-5! Three of those five losses came as an very old fighter! And, Foreman beat Frazier, Norton, Lyle, and Chuvalo(beat him like he had never been beaten before). I SAY WHEN YOU FACTOR IN EVERYTHING HE WAS TOP 6 ALL TIME, BUT I GUESS THAT’S NOT BEST!

Ranking: 1. Ali 2. Leonard 3. Hagler. 4. Robinson. 5. Louis. 6. Foreman. That's where I have George in the LB for LB rankings and third amongst the heavyweights: behind only Ali and Louis.

*Jimmy Young beat him, because the ref was not a strong ref and Young whined to the ref to stop George from doing his swing thing for a long time and, after this, he won in the minds of judges and, also, put George down in the 12th. It was flukey if you ask me and a fight that was the art of fighting without fighting! You'd have to watch to see what I am talking about.

Young probably mostly resembles Benitez, but Young really was about the same(if not a little better) offensively and was as good or better defensively. Besides that, he, in some fights, pulled some fast ones(stuck his head outside of the ropes VS Ali more than once AND whined at the ref to force him to stop George's aggression).

Tony Tucker - IBF Champion in the 1980s who stopped Buster Douglas. Michael Spinks, George Foreman and Riddick Bowe all ducked him. He was skilled, granite chinned and could hit. Some may disagree, but at his best he’s a problem for anyone in history. When 36 and past his best he was 48–1 going into the Lennox Lewis fight his only loss to a Peak Mike Tyson on points! He gave Lennox one of his toughest fights, hurt Lennox, But lost a decision. So after that fight he was 48–2 his only loses to peak Tyson and Prime Lennox Lewis on points! And gave both good hard fights. Criminally Underrated.

Donovan ‘Razor’ Ruddock - 1987–1992 he was a monster. Two great wars with Tyson. One of the great heavyweight knockouts of all time against Michael Dokes. Holyfields management swerved that fight when it was presented to them, Ruddock was number 2 contender. At the time nobody wanted a piece of him he was seen as the new kid on the block and the most dangerous around after Tyson, more so than Foreman at this point. It’s easy to look back and say, well he lost to Lennox etc.. that happens in boxing, it happened to Lennox himself. He proved his worth against Tyson and is easily one of the most avoided at heavyweight.

Errol Bomber Graham was avoided. Skills, speed, power, awkward.

There’s so many.

It is difficult because you not only have fighters from different era's, with different styles, but they fought different opponents, under a different set of rules, old world fighters didn't have modern convenience, and luxury in daily life, they walked more, rode horses, not cars, no air conditioning, etc, the great depression,and world wars, impacted their lives, which wasn't a conductor for producing big bulky heavyweights like today, I believe McDonald's was founded in 1954,those times rather produced, lean, mean, fighting machines, John L Sullivan fought bare knuckles, until somebody dropped, Dempsey hovered over fallen opponents, the neutral corner rule was a difference maker, today bigger fighters, with better equipment fight championships in 12 rounds , Frazier beat Ali, but lost to Foreman, who lost to Ali, who said his best fight was against C Williams who was a dead man walking, Louis best fight, might have been Schmelling 2, after he lost the 1st fight, Dempsey's best maybe Willard, who hadn't fought for years, same with Johnson-Jeffries, Marciano won every fight, but wasn't as devastating

No historian/knowledgeable fan I have ever met believes he was. Why?

Lets compare him with Sugar Ray Robinson, a man who had a similar career path in terms of where he started, and a fighter most consider the greatest.

• Robinson fought 12 Hall-of-Famers; Mayweather’s total, as of this moment, is 2. That will expand in coming years to at least 6 but could be higher.
• Robinson was 22–5–1 against Hall-of-Famers; Mayweather is 2–0. Again, that number will get larger.
• Robinson had a peak win-loss record of 128–1–2; Mayweather’s is 50–0.
• Robinson’s ending record was 174–19–6 (109 KO’s); Mayweather’s is 50–0 (27 KO’s).
• Robinson’s notable opponents, starting from lowest to highest weight: Henry Armstrong (#4 P4P*, #3 at featherweight, #4 at lightweight, #3 at welterweight), Sammy Angott (#30 at lightweight), Kid Gavilan (#6 at welterweight), Carmen Basilio (#14 at welterweight), Fritzie Zivic (#23 at welterweight), Jake LaMotta (#9 at middleweight), Gene Fullmer (#20 at middleweight), Joey Giardello (#28 at middleweight), and Joey Maxim (#25 at light-heavyweight).
• Mayweather’s notable opponents: Shane Mosley (#19 at lightweight) and Oscar De la Hoya (#22 at welterweight). This will expand also.
• Robinson started at 135 and fought into the 175-pound division; Mayweather began at 130 and never exceeded 154.

It should be noted and nipped in the bud before anyone says that Mayweather fought more “champions”, that the term “champion” has greatly expanded and become watered down since Ray Robinson’s day. During “Sugar’s” prime, eight divisions existed and each had one recognized Champion. Mayweather competed at a time that had seventeen classes and up to 4–6 titleholders per division (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, Ring, Lineal).

With that stated, Robinson was the Champion at welterweight and middleweight. (Note: Robinson defeated Sammy Angott, who was the world’s lightweight Champion, though Angott did not allow Ray to fight for it officially.) Mayweather was Champion at lightweight and welterweight, as well, though he also won the crown at 130 and 154.

We can only imagine what Sugar Ray would have done with the luxury of more divisions and belts.

One other tidbit that should be mentioned is that Floyd Mayweather never fought a prime great, whereas Robinson fought a number of them. From the many boxing people I know, that is widely thought of as his biggest shortcoming.

*Indicates all-time, and is based on the International Boxing Research Organization’s ratings.