It was Kajkavian “Sisek” in various spelling. Then, it became “Sisak” with Štokavian influence, Sisak being both in Kajkavian and Štokavian areas.
How did the ancient name "Siscia" turn into Croatian "Sisak"? Why didn't the yotation happen? Why didn't the 'i' turn into 'e' (via the yat) or into 'a' (via the front yer)? Is it strongly influenced by a folk etymology with "sisa" meaning "breast"?
The modern placename Sisak appears to have evolved from earlier *siskъ or *sisьkъ. The first form agrees better with Latin Siscia, but the latter one could have been created under the influence of the nouns containing the fairly common suffix *-ьkъ.
The vowel i must have been derived from Latin long i (short i would have been interpreted as *ь, which
How did the ancient name "Siscia" turn into Croatian "Sisak"? Why didn't the yotation happen? Why didn't the 'i' turn into 'e' (via the yat) or into 'a' (via the front yer)? Is it strongly influenced by a folk etymology with "sisa" meaning "breast"?
The modern placename Sisak appears to have evolved from earlier *siskъ or *sisьkъ. The first form agrees better with Latin Siscia, but the latter one could have been created under the influence of the nouns containing the fairly common suffix *-ьkъ.
The vowel i must have been derived from Latin long i (short i would have been interpreted as *ь, which would later have become e in Kajkavian and a in Štokavian). Of course, nobody knows how this placename was pronounced in local Vulgar Latin / Early Romance at the time it was borrowed into Slavic, but obviously the first vowel had to be close to Common Slavic i. Otherwise, it would have been interpreted as another vowel.
As for the lack of yod palatalisation, who knows. There is no palatalisation in some other place names either, e.g. Sirmium > Srijem (instead of *srěmljь > Srijemalj). Again, this might have something to do with how this word was pronounced in local Vulgar Latin. Or the influence of the suffix *-ьkъ is to blame (in the case of Sisak). In fact, by the time Slavs reached that area, velars had already been palatalised, so perhaps it was too late for that anyway.
As for the folk etymology involving the word sisa ‘breast’, that doesn’t really make sense. If Latin Siscia had been borrowed as, say, *sišča or *sьšča, or in fact *siščь, or *sьščь (since most settlement names were interpreted as grammatically masculine), it’s unlikely that would have been replaced with a precursor of the modern name so that it sounds more like sisa.
Additionally, the word sisa (if it’s that old) would have been *sysa in those times, so the analogy would be even less likely - at least, before *y and *i fell together.
By the way, there was also another word meaning ‘breast’ - *sъsьcь (which is sasac in some modern Croatian dialects), and something like *sьščь, if it had ever existed, would have been similar enough to that (after the merger of the two yers), so there would be no need to change it to *sisьkъ in order to make it sound closer to a word meaning ‘breast’.
Anyway, in my opinion, the most likely explanation is that whatever the word was like in Early Romance, its ending was reinterpreted as the Slavic suffix *-ьkъ, which normally evolved to become Kajkavian -ek and Štokavian -ak; hence Sisak.
Slavs are original Aryans.
Slovak language has many words that every Slovak sees as “our absolutely own, Slovak words”
SANSKRIT-SLOVAK-ENGLISH
IN SLOVAK LANGUAGE “J” IS PRONOUNCED LIKE “Y”
MADHU-MED-HONEY
MADHUVAD-MEDVEĎ-BEAR (HONEY EATER)
STHITA-STÁŤ-TO STAND
DADATI-DAŤ-TO GIVE
SADYATI-SEDIEŤ-TO SIT
BHAVA-BYTIE-BEINGNESS
BHAVAYATI-BAVIŤ-TO ENJOY
BUDHYATE-BUDIŤ-BE AWAKE, TO WAKE
BAHIH-BEZ-WITHOUT (IS READ “BAZIS)
BHRATR-BRAT-BROTHER
BHARATI-BRAŤ-TO TAKE AWAY
BHRU-BRVA-EYEBROW
BHUTA-BYŤ-TO BE
PLAVA-PLÁVANIE-SWIMMING
PLAVYATI-PLÁVAŤ-TO SWIM
PACATI-PIECŤ-TO BAKE
DARVA-DREVO-WOOD
AGNI-OHEN-FIRE
HIMA-ZIMA-WINTER (“H” IN
Slavs are original Aryans.
Slovak language has many words that every Slovak sees as “our absolutely own, Slovak words”
SANSKRIT-SLOVAK-ENGLISH
IN SLOVAK LANGUAGE “J” IS PRONOUNCED LIKE “Y”
MADHU-MED-HONEY
MADHUVAD-MEDVEĎ-BEAR (HONEY EATER)
STHITA-STÁŤ-TO STAND
DADATI-DAŤ-TO GIVE
SADYATI-SEDIEŤ-TO SIT
BHAVA-BYTIE-BEINGNESS
BHAVAYATI-BAVIŤ-TO ENJOY
BUDHYATE-BUDIŤ-BE AWAKE, TO WAKE
BAHIH-BEZ-WITHOUT (IS READ “BAZIS)
BHRATR-BRAT-BROTHER
BHARATI-BRAŤ-TO TAKE AWAY
BHRU-BRVA-EYEBROW
BHUTA-BYŤ-TO BE
PLAVA-PLÁVANIE-SWIMMING
PLAVYATI-PLÁVAŤ-TO SWIM
PACATI-PIECŤ-TO BAKE
DARVA-DREVO-WOOD
AGNI-OHEN-FIRE
HIMA-ZIMA-WINTER (“H” IN SANSKRIT READs AS “Z”)
YAVASA-OVOS-OATS
DVAYA-DVAJA-TWO OF THEM
NABHAS-NEBO-SKY
SVYATA-SVET-WORLD
NASYATI-NIESŤ-TO BEAR
NAKTI-NOC-NIGHT
ASTI-JESŤ-EAT
PADYATI-PADAŤ-TO FALL
PAMSUKA-PIESOK-SAND
DHUMA-DYM-SMOKE
DAMA-DOM-HOUSE
…MANY, MANY, MANY MORE…almost all of them..
ekam-jeden-1
dve-dve, dva-2
trini-tri-3
catvari-štyri-4
panca-päť, päťka-5
sat-šesť-6
sapta-sedem-7
asta-osem-eight
nava-deväť-9
dasha-desať-10
shatam-sto-100
YABHATI-JEBAŤ-TO FUCK…
KUNDA-KUNDA-PUSSY Kunda can mean "energy shape" or "energy field," sometimes in the physical form of a pyramid or altar that can be crafted from numerous materials.
JIVAYATI (ZHIVAYATI)-ŽIŤ-TO LIVE
KATARA-KTORÝ-WHICH…
ZILLIONS OF MORE.
Are the names of the Croatian cities Nin and Knin related? Does "Knin" mean something like " (on a road) towards Nin"? Or does the name Knin really come from ancient name "Tininium"? If so, how did 't' change into 'k'? Why didn't 'n' turn to 'NJ'?
The name Nin comes from Aenona, which might have been pronounced [eno:na] or so in Vulgar Latin. Knin comes from Tininium, possibly pronounced [teni:njo] in VL.
Latin unstressed short vowels (except a) were interpreted by Common Slavic speakers as yers (essentially, short centralised i and u, or something like that). Latin long o (whatever sound it had
Are the names of the Croatian cities Nin and Knin related? Does "Knin" mean something like " (on a road) towards Nin"? Or does the name Knin really come from ancient name "Tininium"? If so, how did 't' change into 'k'? Why didn't 'n' turn to 'NJ'?
The name Nin comes from Aenona, which might have been pronounced [eno:na] or so in Vulgar Latin. Knin comes from Tininium, possibly pronounced [teni:njo] in VL.
Latin unstressed short vowels (except a) were interpreted by Common Slavic speakers as yers (essentially, short centralised i and u, or something like that). Latin long o (whatever sound it had evolved into in VL) was usually adopted into Slavic as /u:/ which was probably centralised and unrounded too (i. e. IPA ɯ or ɨ). This later became /i/ in Croatian.
The initial vowel in Aenona fell out for some reason, so Common Slavic: *nɯ:nʊ or *nɨ:nʊ (traditional Slavicist transcription *nynъ), which became Nȋn in Croatian.
I’m not sure about the second n in Knin, why it wasn’t palatalised to what we spell as nj (IPA ɲ). Perhaps local Slavic speakers perceived the original VL sound as more similar to their n than to ɲ. Or the sequence n…ɲ became assimilated to n…n. Or it was some sort of analogy. Or there was another Latin version: Tininum. I don’t know, really.
Latin Tininium would have been interpreted in CSl. as *tɪni:njɪ (trad. *tьnińь) but let’s say the ending was reinterpreted as early as that, so the word was *tɪni:nʊ (trad. *tьninъ). After the loss of yers, the word started in tn.
This type of consonant clusters tends to change somehow in various dialects, so for example, Kajkavian kmica < tmica (darkness), or Stand. Croatian kći < tći < *dъći (cf. Old Slavic *dъšti). This is a type of dissimilation, because velar k is more distant from m, n, ć, in the place of articulation than t is.
So *tnin became Knȋn.
The first n is also expected to be palatalised in Knin, i.e. it should be called Knjinj actually (haha), because n was palatalised between k/g and i, cf. knjiga (book), gnjilo (rotten). But this palatalisation must have preceded the change of tn to kn, so it never happened here.
Both place-names are pre-Roman and come from some unattested language which was spoken there before the Roman conquest (possibly by the Liburni or Delmatae, or even by someone who was there before them). So nobody really knows what they mean. However, Aenona is interesting because it ends in -ona, the same as Narona (Vid near Metković), Salona (Solin), Scardona (Skradin), Flanona (Plomin in Istria), Albona (Labin), etc., which might be the same thing as in Cremona, Gemona, etc. in north-east Italy.
As for the possibility that Knin may mean ‘to Nin’, because Croatian k “to”, well, compounds like that are uncommon (or non-existent). I’m not aware of any Croatian placename that’s composed solely of a preposition and another placename. At least, there would also be a suffix referring to a place/area, such as -je in Podunavlje, Pokuplje, Međimurje, or based on a common noun: Primorje, Podbrežje, etc.
I’m not going to keep answering questions about Croatian historical linguistics, but there’s several errors in your formulation.
As Ebenezer Dorset's answer points out,
Sotona is Old Church Slavonic, which means it came from Ecclesiastical Greek Satanas, not Vulgar Latin Satanas, and the vowel-dropping of Vulgar Latin need not apply to Sotona.
The fact that Croatia ended up Catholic is irrelevant: Sotona was already established in the language with the initial wave of Christianisation, they would not necessarily have changed it to a form closer to Latin when the
I’m not going to keep answering questions about Croatian historical linguistics, but there’s several errors in your formulation.
As Ebenezer Dorset's answer points out,
Sotona is Old Church Slavonic, which means it came from Ecclesiastical Greek Satanas, not Vulgar Latin Satanas, and the vowel-dropping of Vulgar Latin need not apply to Sotona.
The fact that Croatia ended up Catholic is irrelevant: Sotona was already established in the language with the initial wave of Christianisation, they would not necessarily have changed it to a form closer to Latin when the Great Schism happened. They could have—the Reformation brought some significant changes in how English pronounces Biblical figures, closer to Latin than French; but it would have taken an event as disruptive as the Reformation to make that happen. And picking Rome over Constantinople in the Western Balkans was not that wrenching a change.
The fact that Serbian went with the other Old Church Slavonic form Satana is also irrelevant. Old Church Slavonic had a more nativised and a less nativised name for Satan, and that’s Old Church Slavonic’s business; Croatian picked the more nativised form because Reasons, and Serbian picked the less nativised form because Reasons. I don’t know what those reasons are, and I don’t need to to explain why Croatian doesn’t pronounce it Sotna. What happened in Vulgar Latin still has nothing to do with it.
But even if proto-Croatian had gotten the form Sotona from Latin and not Greek, the Vulgar Latin dropping of syllables (calidus > caldo) would not have impacted the name of Satan. Just as it hasn’t any of the Romance languages:
- Catalan Satanàs
- Portuguese Satanás
- Spanish Satanás
- French Satan
- Italian Satana
- Romanian Satan
And that’s because Satanas is not a Vulgar Latin word. Not since Jerome put it into the Vulgate. It’s a word used in church. And as such, it is going to treated with linguistic reverence, and it is going to resist the slurring and casual pronunciation that leads to dropping syllables, and calidus turning into caldo.
In many subdialects of Cypriot Greek, θ always turns into x. So anθropos “human” ends up as axropos “man”, θelo ends up as xelo “want”. That’s a regular sound change.
And there are exceptions to regular sound change, especially when high register is involved. There are two words in Cypriot that never switch from “th” to “kh”.
The first is “courage”, θaros. That would make it a homonym with xaros, “Charon, the Grim Reaper: Death”. Languages normally don’t mind homonymy, but there are isolated cases where they do—especially if taboos are involved; and this is one of them.
The other instance where Cypriot never switches from “th” to “kh”? It’s the name that’s the opposite of Satan, and used with the same kind of religiosity and non-casualness.
θeos. God.
And that’s why no Romance language drops the “a” in Satan.
Because of yat. Actually, old yat was written in Croatian from the 1400s to the early 1800s, in its Ijekavian form, in one way, regardless of its length- for instance mostly as -ie- (biela svietlost/white light); then with -je-, after /j/ had become accepted in the Catholic world (bjela svjetlost, cf. Ivan Gundulić, Joakim Stulli etc.). Some wrote it as -ije- or -iye- (bijela svijetlost), but that was not reflected in pronunciation. In old, as well as in modern standard Croatian, Ijekavian yat is one syllable, so bijelo/white, has actually 2 syllables. In Ijekavian Serbian and Montenegrin, it
Because of yat. Actually, old yat was written in Croatian from the 1400s to the early 1800s, in its Ijekavian form, in one way, regardless of its length- for instance mostly as -ie- (biela svietlost/white light); then with -je-, after /j/ had become accepted in the Catholic world (bjela svjetlost, cf. Ivan Gundulić, Joakim Stulli etc.). Some wrote it as -ije- or -iye- (bijela svijetlost), but that was not reflected in pronunciation. In old, as well as in modern standard Croatian, Ijekavian yat is one syllable, so bijelo/white, has actually 2 syllables. In Ijekavian Serbian and Montenegrin, it is more complicated. Generally, for eastern Ijekavian Serbs and Montenegrins, “long yat” has two syllables, which can be seen in Serbian epic poetry and in poems of Njegoš. It can be ascertained by counting syllables in poetry. In Ijekavian Serbian, bijelo has 3 syllables. Vuk Karadžić had started this mess when he had, after initial vacillation, adopted that long yat in pronunciation should be written as- ije- (zvijezda/star; 3 syllables), but zvjezdan/starry, 2 syllables. Croats, at first, wrote ě (rogato e), which could be read as i, e, (i)je (bilo, belo, b(i)jelo). Then, around 1840.. most had been writing as -ie- (bielo), with some exceptions. Basically, it is the length of pronunciation: if we write dug/dugovi (debt/debts)- why should we write differently long and short pronunciations?
In Serbian, it is easier: zvezda/zvezdana, although “e” is different in length.Then a leading Croatian philologist, Slovak Bogoslav Šulek, decided we should write long yat as -ie-, and short as -je- (biela svjetlost). People got used to it, because then, around the 1860s, not many of them were literate, Šulek was the authority, and then, it was in accordance with Dubrovnik literary tradition of yat as one syllable. Basically, Croats who are native Ijekavians, as well as Croatian Serbs (all Ijekavians) pronounce yat as one syllable, whether long or short- as different from eastern Serbs around Drina and Montenegrins. So, in most Croatian literature from the 1860s to the 1890s, it was written as Šulek had prescribed. It would be zviezda/zvjezdana. But then Croatian neo-grammarians or Vukovians, who liked Karadžić’s model, imposed - instead of Šulek’s ie/je writing (zviezda/zvjezdana), Karadžić’s type (zvijezda/zvjezdana). Ivan Broz did it:
This caused confusion, mostly for poets- they should write as if -ije- had 2 syllables, but read as if it had one, so they tried everything: zv’jezda; zviezda, …Somewhere in the early 2000s Croatian linguist Škarić proposed to dump all this mess and go back to the Dubrovnik 1700s tradition of one & the same type for any pronunciation: zvjezda/zvjezdana. but most linguists were cautious or simply lazy. Be as it may, this remains a problem. Montenegrins are supposed to have it easy because they are good at distinguishing between long and short types. But this is an illusion, since they frequently make mistakes such as: Njemci/Germans, instead of Nijemci.This is a problem that could be fixed with Škarić’s proposal, but I think the best option, for the time being, is additional schooling in orthography in high schools etc.
it depends who named them first, usually people have names others put them in most of the cases
After I saw that there has been much going on with this topic trying from Iranian, Arabic, jewish, slavonic etymologies, there are some of them interesting, but since I am not an Arabic or Slavonic speaker I will give an alternative just to exercise the mind of some people
Slavs of the south came in contact when they first came with Christian Illyrian (Albanians)
First written name for Croat is in Latin KRUAT -(orum/ just a latin ending)
In Albanian there could be two etymologies
- If U was at first Y ( Ü)
it depends who named them first, usually people have names others put them in most of the cases
After I saw that there has been much going on with this topic trying from Iranian, Arabic, jewish, slavonic etymologies, there are some of them interesting, but since I am not an Arabic or Slavonic speaker I will give an alternative just to exercise the mind of some people
Slavs of the south came in contact when they first came with Christian Illyrian (Albanians)
First written name for Croat is in Latin KRUAT -(orum/ just a latin ending)
In Albanian there could be two etymologies
- If U was at first Y ( Ü) then KRY = Albanian for head
AT or JAT stands for GIAT or GJAT = Albanian for long (not very possible because AT probably stands for an ending denoting one's origin)
Anyway in that case if this is true KRUAT/CROAT would be longhead people
2. If KRU or KRUA is the root then Albanian for CREEK or River so KRUAT/CROAT would be people coming from river paths or living along river or water sources
Why did the phoneme ie get replaced by ije and je in the last 100 years in the Croatian language?
That isn’t a phoneme, actually - it’s just about spelling.
In modern Croatian, the letter sequences ije and je both represent the sequence j+e. Ije is used if e is long (as in bijeli ‘white’), and je is used if e is short (as in bjelina ‘whiteness’). [The problem is that people who grew up in certain areas of Croatia don’t make any difference between long and short vowels anymore, but that’s a different story.] Some say that ije is a diphthong (a single phoneme), but I’ve never heard anyone from Cro
Why did the phoneme ie get replaced by ije and je in the last 100 years in the Croatian language?
That isn’t a phoneme, actually - it’s just about spelling.
In modern Croatian, the letter sequences ije and je both represent the sequence j+e. Ije is used if e is long (as in bijeli ‘white’), and je is used if e is short (as in bjelina ‘whiteness’). [The problem is that people who grew up in certain areas of Croatia don’t make any difference between long and short vowels anymore, but that’s a different story.] Some say that ije is a diphthong (a single phoneme), but I’ve never heard anyone from Croatia pronounce it that way (which doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but if it does, it definitely isn’t common).
Anyway, these sequences were written in a number of ways in the 19th century, when Standard Croatian was being formed. Some used the letter ě, as in Czech, e.g. tělo (body), which could be pronounced in different ways, depending on the speaker’s dialect. Others preferred ie and je (depending on length), e.g. bieli, bjelina. Others thought ije and je were a better choice. This was because ije was pronounced as two syllables in some areas (although disyllabic ije is really rare in Croatia; it can be heard perhaps in some southernmost dialects).
In any case, the ije spelling was supported by influential Croatian linguists of the late 19th / early 20th century, such as Tomo Maretić and Ivan Broz, and was eventually accepted as official.
The ie spelling (along with some other modifications) was reintroduced in 1941 in the Independent State of Croatia, but this was abandoned again after WW2.
** Of course, I’m well aware of all the political and similar connotations that are still attached to the choice of ije vs. ie - if anyone has something sensible to say about that they’re welcome, but nationalist rants of any sort will be deleted.
There is no word Allah in Croatian. However, Alah would mean, well, Allah. Therefore, examples you give would be various cases which you get while declining the word alah. For instance:
- nominativ alah
- genitiv alaha
- dativ alahu
- akusativ alaha
- vokativ alahu
- instrumental alahom
- locativ alahu
Hence, alahov means something that belongs to alah. For instance, alahov sto (alah's table). Declined:
- alahov sto
- alahovog stola
- alahovom stolu
- alahov sto
- alahov stole
- alahovim stolom
- alahovom stolu
It corresponds in gender and number.
For instance:
alahov čovek (alah's man)
alahova žena (alah's woman)
alahovo dete (alah's child
There is no word Allah in Croatian. However, Alah would mean, well, Allah. Therefore, examples you give would be various cases which you get while declining the word alah. For instance:
- nominativ alah
- genitiv alaha
- dativ alahu
- akusativ alaha
- vokativ alahu
- instrumental alahom
- locativ alahu
Hence, alahov means something that belongs to alah. For instance, alahov sto (alah's table). Declined:
- alahov sto
- alahovog stola
- alahovom stolu
- alahov sto
- alahov stole
- alahovim stolom
- alahovom stolu
It corresponds in gender and number.
For instance:
alahov čovek (alah's man)
alahova žena (alah's woman)
alahovo dete (alah's child)
and so on…
I started believing that Slavic language was always there. But I will leave that for another time to explain. No one have oposite proof but seem everyone belives that Slavs came much latter. Well if you are sure… I just dont know on what evidence.
Sisak, Vrisak(scream), Pljusak(pouring rain), Stisak(squeeze with hand), Pijesak(sand), Masak(large man), Vosak(vax),.. are all South Slavic words that are simmilary constructed and show common elements. Most close seems to be Stisak from Stisnuti Stiskati,… meaning to press. Croats use word tisak for news press and Montenegrin use tisnuo, tisni for s
I started believing that Slavic language was always there. But I will leave that for another time to explain. No one have oposite proof but seem everyone belives that Slavs came much latter. Well if you are sure… I just dont know on what evidence.
Sisak, Vrisak(scream), Pljusak(pouring rain), Stisak(squeeze with hand), Pijesak(sand), Masak(large man), Vosak(vax),.. are all South Slavic words that are simmilary constructed and show common elements. Most close seems to be Stisak from Stisnuti Stiskati,… meaning to press. Croats use word tisak for news press and Montenegrin use tisnuo, tisni for same meaning. I point this out to show that S is common prefix in Slavic. Old slavic word iskanje iskati (to ask) or ištu (they want) in that way may be related. Siskanje in that way is related to Sisak. (If you would ask inhabitant of Sisak where is he from he would say: “Ja sam iz Siska” just to demonstrate how words change in Slavic)
Sisa (breast) comes from meaning Sisanje, isisavanje, sišanje(Montenegrins say sišu for sisaju) and meaing is to suck sucking. You have simmilar name in Montenegro Cuce
which is related to Cucla (suckling niple like to babies are given). By etymology you can come to interesting conclusions.Footnotes
I have no idea, but will you allow me a guess?
So, I’ll take it as given that what you’re saying is right, and that Vulgar Latin San Petro, as the name of a Dalmatian town, ended up in Old Croatian as *Sǫpetar and thence the modern town of
—or as Italians liked to call it, San Pietro della Brazza.
It’s certainly more plausible than the etymology that Wikipedia gives, that Sv = St in Croatian, and hence Sv Petar was pronounced Supetar. No, not even Croatian would do Sv(eti)Petar > SvPetar > Supetar.
And it is the case, I see on the untranslated Googles, that this
I have no idea, but will you allow me a guess?
So, I’ll take it as given that what you’re saying is right, and that Vulgar Latin San Petro, as the name of a Dalmatian town, ended up in Old Croatian as *Sǫpetar and thence the modern town of
—or as Italians liked to call it, San Pietro della Brazza.
It’s certainly more plausible than the etymology that Wikipedia gives, that Sv = St in Croatian, and hence Sv Petar was pronounced Supetar. No, not even Croatian would do Sv(eti)Petar > SvPetar > Supetar.
And it is the case, I see on the untranslated Googles, that this pattern occurs elsewhere in Dalmatia, at least for Saint names: Sustipan - Wikipedia (St Stephen), Sutivan - Wikipedia (which Italians calls San Giovanni della Brazza).
There were Dalmatian speakers of Romance in Dalmatia, and there were Venetians aplenty, but nobody there had a particular need to dispute that the Croatian way of pronouncing San Stefano was Sǫstipan, and the Croatian way of pronouncing San Giovanni was Sǫtivan. (Assuming Sǫtivan is really derived from a Vulgar Sant’ Joanne and not, in fact, Croatian Sveti Ivan. I’m not the Slavicist here, OP, you are.)
… Croatians venture across the sea, and bump into the old port of Ancona. And from what you say, OP, they should be pronouncing it Ǫkona, and ultimately Jukin.
Instead, they don’t pronounce it Jukin, they pronounce it Jakin.
Why?
Well, what’s the difference between Supetar and Ancona?
Supetar was in territory that used to speak the extinct Romance language Dalmatian, which yielded to Croatian and Italian; Italian in turn collapsed in the region, from 33% of the region in the start of the 19th century, to 2% at the end of it. Croats, I’m presuming, long felt that Dalmatia was their coast, not the Italians’, and not the Vlachs’ (as they used to call the ethnic Dalmatians derogatorily: Vlaji.)
Which means that Croats had no particular incentive to respect the more Italian (or Dalmatian) name of towns in the Dalmatian islands.
Ancona, on the other hand, is in the heartland of Italy, full of Italians, and in its heyday was a worthy rival to Venice. Any Croatians who had dealings with Ancona in its heyday would have had some awe of Ancona.
… Enough awe, I’d suggest, to pronounce its name with a bit less of a Croatian accent, and to adjust its name from the expected Jukin, to something a little closer to Ancona, Jakin.
I don’t know that that kind of thing happens often with exonyms, tweaking them more in the direction of the source language, but not outright abandoning them.
Poking around, the closest I can find is Regina. Initially, if I can trust Wikipedia, it was outright translated to riɣena “Rhēgaina”, the Mediaeval Greek counterpart to Latin regina “queen”. Greek has relented, but there was no way it was going to relent to something as repulsively British as redzaina. The rendering now is the halfway compromise reɡina:
Which is how Greek deals in general with Regina, when it does not translate it into Mediaeval Greek:
—hence, St Regina: 7 ΣΕΠΤΕΜΒΡΙΟΥ ΜΝΗΜΗ ΑΓΙΑΣ ΡΕΓΓΙΝΑΣ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΟΜΑΡΤΥΡΑΣ - Καθολική Αρχιεπισκοπή Νάξου-Τήνου-Μυκόνου-Άνδρου και Μητρόπολη παντός Αιγαίου (with that spelling adopted on the website of the Catholic Archbishopric of Tinos.)
Of course, reɡina doesn’t sound like “queen” in Modern Greek, it sounds like “female herring”. Oh well.
Given that the Latin name of the river was Tedanius, it is likely that Zrmanja is a newly-made Slavic name, and not a pre-Slavic name. It is unlikely that Illyrians would change the name of the river from one Illyrian word to another Illyrian word, or that Slavs would adopt an Illyrian word as the name of the river that already was named after another Illyrian word.
Yes, it is generally believed that the name of the river is connected with Sirmium, however Sirmium is also not necessarily an Illyrian word, both coming from Proto-Indo-European root *ser- which means “to flow”.
Other namesake rivFootnotes
Given that the Latin name of the river was Tedanius, it is likely that Zrmanja is a newly-made Slavic name, and not a pre-Slavic name. It is unlikely that Illyrians would change the name of the river from one Illyrian word to another Illyrian word, or that Slavs would adopt an Illyrian word as the name of the river that already was named after another Illyrian word.
Yes, it is generally believed that the name of the river is connected with Sirmium, however Sirmium is also not necessarily an Illyrian word, both coming from Proto-Indo-European root *ser- which means “to flow”.
Other namesake rivers in Europe include French Sermane, Italian Sermenza and Sarno.[math]^{[1]}[/math]To sum it up, Zrmanja is likely a Slavic name, and even if it does come from the same root as an Illyrian word, this Illyrian word was not used for the Illyrian name of the river.
(This was accidentally originally published at.
)Footnotes
The word “Croatian” for “Hrvat” comes from Latin (and later Italian), not English.
The word “Croatian” for “Hrvat” comes from Latin (and later Italian), not English.
It seems that the word is quite old. Most scholars agree that it doesn't have a Slavic origin but that it originates from the Middle East, more precisely Iran or Afghanistan. The oldest findings date back to the 3rd century, the so-called Tanais Tablets discovered in 1853 by a Russian archaeologist Pavel Mihailovič Leontjev in Tanais (now Azov) on the Don River, Χοροάθος (Horoathos), the root word being a Scytho-Sarmatian form. Most Slavic and Finno-Ugric languages as well as those from the Middle East call our country accordingly; Харватыя, Хърватия, Хорватія, Хорватия, Horvaatia, Horvátorszá
It seems that the word is quite old. Most scholars agree that it doesn't have a Slavic origin but that it originates from the Middle East, more precisely Iran or Afghanistan. The oldest findings date back to the 3rd century, the so-called Tanais Tablets discovered in 1853 by a Russian archaeologist Pavel Mihailovič Leontjev in Tanais (now Azov) on the Don River, Χοροάθος (Horoathos), the root word being a Scytho-Sarmatian form. Most Slavic and Finno-Ugric languages as well as those from the Middle East call our country accordingly; Харватыя, Хърватия, Хорватія, Хорватия, Horvaatia, Horvátország, Horvātija, Хрватска, Hrvaška, Chorwacja, Chorvátsko, Hırvatistan.
The Tanais Tablet
source: Wikipedia
The Medieval Latin name "Croātia" is derived from northwest Slavic xrovat-, by so-called “liquid metathesis” from Common Slavic xorvat-, from Proto-Slavic or Iranian, xarwāt-. Accordingly, it entered in a similar form into all Romance and Germanic languages, Greek and Albanian; Croatia, Kroatien, Kroatia, Croatie, Croazia, Croacia, Croația, Króatía, Κροατία, Kroacia, Kroatië, Kroatija, An Chróit…
The story goes that Croatian soldiers served in many European armies in the past. Allegedly, in the French army in the 17th century, during the reign of Louis XIII, there was a cavalry composed exclusively of the Croats, called Royal - Cravate, which existed in the period of 1664-1789. These soldiers gave the world something that is today unavoidable in fashion: the tie, called la cravate by the French and by the Germans die Krawatte - the expression was coined from the Croatian name, and mentioned for the first time in 1651. The name has entered into various languages.
There is always a dilemma when you translate words, what form should you use? It has become common to use the word Croatian in English, as well as Slovenian and Serbian, for instance. But strictly speaking, Croat, Slovene, and Serb would be more accurate.
Deep down, the word Croatian indicates a person from the land of Croatia, while Croat means a member of a nation. In the Croatian language, a person is called Hrvat, and the land is Hrvatska, which indicates that the name of the land was derived from the name of the nation.
It is different for the nations that were named after the place the
There is always a dilemma when you translate words, what form should you use? It has become common to use the word Croatian in English, as well as Slovenian and Serbian, for instance. But strictly speaking, Croat, Slovene, and Serb would be more accurate.
Deep down, the word Croatian indicates a person from the land of Croatia, while Croat means a member of a nation. In the Croatian language, a person is called Hrvat, and the land is Hrvatska, which indicates that the name of the land was derived from the name of the nation.
It is different for the nations that were named after the place they settled, like Americans or Canadians. Italians, for instance, are also a nation that was formed after smaller historical entities united, and people did not truly identify as ancient Italic peoples, but you would not use the word Englandian or Francian.
But I have no problem with the use today, and I think both Croat and Croatian are perfectly fine, as I don’t mind being called Slovene or Slovenian.
The answer is rather simple: the ancient Aryan people that went from Europe to India in several waves and in two directions were the ancestors of the modern day Slavs.
Sanskrt (“san” - dream, revelation, “skr(i)t” - something hidden; revealing something hidden through a vision) basically means revealing something divine that we cannot normally know. Actually, the very root “div-” in divine is of Slavic and Sanskrit origin. It describes something “glorious and godly in nature”, in example: gods. Modern Sanskrit is NOT completely derived from ancient Slavic, though. It is a fusion of that languag
The answer is rather simple: the ancient Aryan people that went from Europe to India in several waves and in two directions were the ancestors of the modern day Slavs.
Sanskrt (“san” - dream, revelation, “skr(i)t” - something hidden; revealing something hidden through a vision) basically means revealing something divine that we cannot normally know. Actually, the very root “div-” in divine is of Slavic and Sanskrit origin. It describes something “glorious and godly in nature”, in example: gods. Modern Sanskrit is NOT completely derived from ancient Slavic, though. It is a fusion of that language and Hindu. That’s why it contains many words archaic to the Slavs and some words that some Slavs use and some don’t. But it generally takes some half a minute explaining and the people usually respond with: “Oh, I see!”
Anyway, these Aryan people lived all over Europe, even as far west as Ireland, but we can say that some sort of “border” between the two races (the other race consisting of Germans and Cimmerians (wrongly called “Celts” by the Romans)) were the Rhine and Main rivers in Germany all the way down to Genoa. Mind that these “front lines” shifted as the courses of history went on but this is the general gist of it.
The Aryans or “the followers of Orion” how the Greeks called them. Orion was the gigantic hunter from myths and is of “Balkan Slavic” origin: “Oријаш” (Orijaš) is one of the Slavic words for “giant”. Their origins are indeed from the Balkans (the oldest known name for the Balkans is actually “Hlm” which means ”a hill rising from the flat ground” (Pannonian plain surrounding it in the north with 3 seas in the east, west and south). In the Balkans (actually a Turkish medieval name) we can find the oldest cities and towns in Europe, possibly in the world, and, more importantly - the oldest writing system ever known. This is important as the ancient Greeks describe Aryans as the inventors of writing - and we actually found it scattered across modern day Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, N. Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania and Italy, mostly around the Danube and Morava rivers. But it would simply take too long describing them, so I won’t.
They migrated in two directions from the Hlm. One, northern, went all the way to Siberia and then south to China and India, the other, eastern, across the seas and Middle East which also landed in India. These weren’t short term voyages and military expeditions, they went on and off for decades and centuries. To sum things up: all Slavs originate from the Balkans, proven by historians, archaeologists and geneticists time and time again. “Deleting” Slavs from history is an old thing. It started with the German nobility supported by the Catholic Church renaming towns in the middle ages and ended with Germans and Austrians when they started falsifying the world history in their XIX century “Drang nach Osten”. We have tons of material evidence.
The [f] sound was not borrowed by Old Slavs.
Rather, the [f] sound emerged in Slavic languages.
First, the [w] sound was changed to [v]. It has been done in Old Common Slavic (OCS*) by the middle of the 9th century.
Next, about the 11th century, the split of OCS* into separate Slavic languages occurred. Next events developed independently in each language.
FInally, weak yers disappeared. In some positions, the [v] sound had to be de-voiced, and thus, the [f] sound appeared.
Q. Why did Old Slavs borrow the [f] sound, but didn't borrow [θ]?
A. The [f] sound was not borrowed, it emerged. It emerged si
The [f] sound was not borrowed by Old Slavs.
Rather, the [f] sound emerged in Slavic languages.
First, the [w] sound was changed to [v]. It has been done in Old Common Slavic (OCS*) by the middle of the 9th century.
Next, about the 11th century, the split of OCS* into separate Slavic languages occurred. Next events developed independently in each language.
FInally, weak yers disappeared. In some positions, the [v] sound had to be de-voiced, and thus, the [f] sound appeared.
Q. Why did Old Slavs borrow the [f] sound, but didn't borrow [θ]?
A. The [f] sound was not borrowed, it emerged. It emerged since its voiced counter-part, the [v] sound, existed in the language. The [θ] sound did not emerge because its voiced counter-part, the [δ] sound, never existed in Slavic.
Since the word for day is *dьnь > dan and since etymologically *dьnьsь is “this day”, the expected *dnas was analogically restored to danas so as not to lose the link with dan. Of course nobody knows why this happened in “Serbo-Croatian” and not in Czech for example, cf. Czech den=day, but dnes=today, with the regular outcome of Common Slavic *dьnь and *dьnьsь.
Why is the Croatian word "vjetar" spelt with "je" rather than "e" (Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, linguistics)?
This spelling reflects the most common pronunciation in Croatia. The letter j is pronounced like English y (in you, yes, yap). The same pronunciation is common in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, and in some parts of Serbia.
This is because the Common Slavic vowel transcribed as ě (the so-called yat) has come to be pronounced je (ye) in the dialect the Croatian standard language is based on. In some Croatian and many Serbian dialects, it developed into e. There are some other reflexes
Why is the Croatian word "vjetar" spelt with "je" rather than "e" (Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, linguistics)?
This spelling reflects the most common pronunciation in Croatia. The letter j is pronounced like English y (in you, yes, yap). The same pronunciation is common in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, and in some parts of Serbia.
This is because the Common Slavic vowel transcribed as ě (the so-called yat) has come to be pronounced je (ye) in the dialect the Croatian standard language is based on. In some Croatian and many Serbian dialects, it developed into e. There are some other reflexes and developments in other dialects, so this word is pronounced vitar in some parts of Croatia (i = English ee, but short in this case), etc.
Of course, that’s not the only word spelled with je corresponding to e in Standard Serbian, cf. Cro. djelo (deed), sjeme (seed), pjena (foam), vjera (faith), ljepota (beauty), bježati (flee), sjesti (sit down), cvjetovi (flowers), etc., all spelled without j in Serbian.
First of all Latin thymiama (< Greek θυμίαμα) evolved into: a) Southern Slavic languages: Croatian tamjan; Serbian тамјан; Macedonian темјан; Bulgarian тамян; b) Albanian temjan, possibly through Macedonian. Thus, it happened not only in Croatian but also in Serbian (in fact, mostly considered to be the same Croatian language, often referred to as Serbo-Croatian) and Bulgarian.
While not being a certified expert, I have the impression that the full disappearance of unstressed vowels only took place in native Slavic words, for example, Croatian sto, ‘one hundred’ after Proto-Slavic sъto (sŭto);
First of all Latin thymiama (< Greek θυμίαμα) evolved into: a) Southern Slavic languages: Croatian tamjan; Serbian тамјан; Macedonian темјан; Bulgarian тамян; b) Albanian temjan, possibly through Macedonian. Thus, it happened not only in Croatian but also in Serbian (in fact, mostly considered to be the same Croatian language, often referred to as Serbo-Croatian) and Bulgarian.
While not being a certified expert, I have the impression that the full disappearance of unstressed vowels only took place in native Slavic words, for example, Croatian sto, ‘one hundred’ after Proto-Slavic sъto (sŭto); Croatian ptica, ‘bird’, after Proto-Slavic pъtica (pŭtitsa). Not being tamjan a native word, and having been borrowed at a later time, different rules of phonetic evolution may apply, so the unstressed vowel did not fully disappear. I may be wrong, but this is a possible explanation.
How did Slavic languages manage to get words with Sanskrit origins as “swet”?
They didn’t.
Both the Balto-Slavic (neither subbranch is “older”) and Indo-Iranian (again, coeval) families are direct branches of the family descended from the Indo-European language, meaning that they both inherited a great deal of similar (not fully identical) lexical and grammatical material. But comparison of modern languages to ancient is the wrong way around: The language to compare to Sanskrit is Old Church Slavonic, the oldest attested form of Slavic, where the differences are more distinct.
The top reason for that would be the “with some meaning” - an insertion without any explanation or foundation - no one can agree with that if they have no clue what it means.
Let me clarify - when attempting a deduction your basic elements are simple logical arguments: one premise + another premise = conclusion. Simple. BUT the two premises need to be true for the conclusion to be true. So in this case the structure is:
P1: k-r is in repetition
P2: k-r has meaning
C: k-r repetition has meaning
But, again, we do not know if “k-r has meaning” is true, therefore we cannot logically say the conclusion
The top reason for that would be the “with some meaning” - an insertion without any explanation or foundation - no one can agree with that if they have no clue what it means.
Let me clarify - when attempting a deduction your basic elements are simple logical arguments: one premise + another premise = conclusion. Simple. BUT the two premises need to be true for the conclusion to be true. So in this case the structure is:
P1: k-r is in repetition
P2: k-r has meaning
C: k-r repetition has meaning
But, again, we do not know if “k-r has meaning” is true, therefore we cannot logically say the conclusion is true. Not convinced? Look at the following argument:
P1: The sky is blue
P2: Blue has meaning
C: The sky has meaning
Worse, looking at the words, Krk is from a different language (Latin Curicum), and Karašica I think is derived from the native name for specie of fish, so most likely there is no meaning, just a coincidence.
No, “kaj” is an old Slavic word, also used in Old Polish and various rural dialects in the past. Now, in Polish language, you can only see it in old literature and old folk songs. Why it is in Slovenian and not in Polish anymore? Mainly because Polish language is the most evolved of all Slavic languages, while Slovenian still uses many old/older words and word variants. Of course, all Slavic languages maintained some of their archaic features, and in Polish it is, for example, the presence of the nasal vowels, which is one of the most archaic elements.
“Did Latin influence play any role in this
No, “kaj” is an old Slavic word, also used in Old Polish and various rural dialects in the past. Now, in Polish language, you can only see it in old literature and old folk songs. Why it is in Slovenian and not in Polish anymore? Mainly because Polish language is the most evolved of all Slavic languages, while Slovenian still uses many old/older words and word variants. Of course, all Slavic languages maintained some of their archaic features, and in Polish it is, for example, the presence of the nasal vowels, which is one of the most archaic elements.
“Did Latin influence play any role in this?”
No, Latin did not play any role in this. Compared to the complex and precise Slavic languages, Latin is quite simple).
The Croatian word is from the same root as wind and Latin ventus, but it isn’t formed with the same Indo-European suffix. The Proto-Slavic word actually did not contain a nasalized /ę/ (< /en/).
I quote Wiktionary on the etymology of wind:
From Middle English wynd, wind, from Old English wind (“wind”), from Proto-Germanic *windaz, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂wéh₁n̥tos (“wind”), from earlier *h₂wéh₁n̥ts (“wind”), derived from the present participle of *h₂weh₁- (“to blow”). Cognate with Dutch wind, German Wind, West Frisian wyn, Norwegian and Swedish vind, Icelandic vindur, Latin ventus, Welsh gwy
The Croatian word is from the same root as wind and Latin ventus, but it isn’t formed with the same Indo-European suffix. The Proto-Slavic word actually did not contain a nasalized /ę/ (< /en/).
I quote Wiktionary on the etymology of wind:
From Middle English wynd, wind, from Old English wind (“wind”), from Proto-Germanic *windaz, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂wéh₁n̥tos (“wind”), from earlier *h₂wéh₁n̥ts (“wind”), derived from the present participle of *h₂weh₁- (“to blow”). Cognate with Dutch wind, German Wind, West Frisian wyn, Norwegian and Swedish vind, Icelandic vindur, Latin ventus, Welsh gwynt, Sanskrit वात (vā́ta), Russian ве́тер (véter), perhaps Albanian bundë (“strong damp wind”). Cognate to vent.
Note that “cognate” here does not mean “formed in exactly the same way”.
In contrast, while vjetar, which is from Proto-Slavic *větrъ is from the same root *h₂weh₁- (“to blow”), it employs the suffix *tro, which is a suffix that is often used to form words that mean “thing which does” or “tool for”. I quote the Wiktionary entry on the etymology of *větrъ:
From Proto-Balto-Slavic *wētras, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂weh₁-.
Cognate with Lithuanian vė́tra (“storm”), Latvian vētra (“storm”), Old Prussian wetro (“wind”), Latin ventus (“wind”), Sanskrit वाति (vāti, “to blow”).
Wiktionary is really becoming an amazing tool.
The Latin word is thought to have undergone syncope, i.e. the loss of the second vowel, in Vulgar Latin, resulting in something like *kurku. The same happened in e.g. Colapis (*kolpis) > Kupa, Spalatum (*speltu) > Split…
Why in Croatian is zvijezda (a star) but a personal name derived from it is Zvjezdana? Why not Zvijezdana?
This is because of the difference in vowel length. Zvijezda is pronounced [zʋje:zda] and Zvjezdana is [zʋjezdana]. It’s something like Czech léto vs. letní. Length distinctions exist in all vowels (and in syllabic R) but they’re shown in spelling only with ije/je. Cf. also bijelo (white) vs. bjelina (whiteness), svijet (world) vs. svjetski (pertaining to the world), cvijet (flower) vs. cvjetovi (flowers), etc. This shortening usually occurs when longer suffixes are added, but that’s not al
Why in Croatian is zvijezda (a star) but a personal name derived from it is Zvjezdana? Why not Zvijezdana?
This is because of the difference in vowel length. Zvijezda is pronounced [zʋje:zda] and Zvjezdana is [zʋjezdana]. It’s something like Czech léto vs. letní. Length distinctions exist in all vowels (and in syllabic R) but they’re shown in spelling only with ije/je. Cf. also bijelo (white) vs. bjelina (whiteness), svijet (world) vs. svjetski (pertaining to the world), cvijet (flower) vs. cvjetovi (flowers), etc. This shortening usually occurs when longer suffixes are added, but that’s not always the case.
Zvjezdan is the male name corresponding to Zvjezdana, and these come from the adjectives meaning ‘stellar’ or ‘starry’.
It is an ancient heraldic name of a Croatian/Hungarian family in the Medieval times, pronounced as shubich and means sons of shuba.
The word shuba has many meanings, including some desserts and alcoholic beverages, gay and merry in Central European languages. It was also used as a slang reference to Jews by the Nazis.
In Eastern Europe shuba (шуба) is a fur coat, probably the origin of the surname.
It is an ancient heraldic name of a Croatian/Hungarian family in the Medieval times, pronounced as shubich and means sons of shuba.
The word shuba has many meanings, including some desserts and alcoholic beverages, gay and merry in Central European languages. It was also used as a slang reference to Jews by the Nazis.
In Eastern Europe shuba (шуба) is a fur coat, probably the origin of the surname.
Teo, why don’t you use Wiktionary, like I do to answer your questions? You can really find everything there.
The answer is that pjena and fumus are not related. (EDIT: I misread the question.) Pjena is related to English foam, but formed with a different Indo-European suffix (containing /n/ instead of /m/) from the same root:
Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/pěna - Wiktionary
You can see that the Proto-Slavic word actually did have yat. EDIT: To make my botched answer at least a little worthwhile, let me add that the IE root had an /oy/ diphthong. /oy/ became /u:/ in Latin after labia
Teo, why don’t you use Wiktionary, like I do to answer your questions? You can really find everything there.
The answer is that pjena and fumus are not related. (EDIT: I misread the question.) Pjena is related to English foam, but formed with a different Indo-European suffix (containing /n/ instead of /m/) from the same root:
Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/pěna - Wiktionary
You can see that the Proto-Slavic word actually did have yat. EDIT: To make my botched answer at least a little worthwhile, let me add that the IE root had an /oy/ diphthong. /oy/ became /u:/ in Latin after labials, but became yat in Slavic (via /ay/, as short /o/ became /a/ in Slavic).
Fumus is from another root entirely, and is related to Croatin dim:
Why is it that in the female name Sylwia in Polish, the letter 'S' is followed by 'y' and not by 'i' as in Silvia, a female given name of Latin origin?
The pronunciation of the Polish name “Sylwia” sounds fairly similar to that of the English name “Silvia”; if it were spelt with an “i” instead of a Y, it would sound like “Sheel-via”, according to the rules of Polish spelling.
Nothing at all to do with Latin.. što has a genitive čega. The word for this is Tai genitive Toga so
Kaj is to ‘ čega’ as Taj is to toga. Or even ča it to čega as Taj is to toga. Both are found in dialects of Croatian.
Nothing at all to do with Latin.. što has a genitive čega. The word for this is Tai genitive Toga so
Kaj is to ‘ čega’ as Taj is to toga. Or even ča it to čega as Taj is to toga. Both are found in dialects of Croatian.
The name Tomislav is a Slavic name that originates from Croatia. It is composed of two elements: "tomi" meaning "to take" and "slav" meaning "glory". Therefore, Tomislav means "one who takes glory". Tomislav is a popular name in Croatia and is often given to boys.
Zrmanja is weird to me as name and seems composed od two parts “zr” and “manja”
Proofs of second part we can see in word najmanja (most small) or name Nemanja (perhaps means not having little or not lacking) or words like Manjak (it's missing from total sum, its short of) manje (less) etc.
This leaves prefix “Zr” which to me seems may be related to words Zrno Zrna(little seed, grain) as closes by simplicity and lead to words Zrnjevlje Zrnastost all lead to mean seed but also small part similar like you could say in English grain of sand so you could “zrnce pijeska”. This resemble saying “manji o
Zrmanja is weird to me as name and seems composed od two parts “zr” and “manja”
Proofs of second part we can see in word najmanja (most small) or name Nemanja (perhaps means not having little or not lacking) or words like Manjak (it's missing from total sum, its short of) manje (less) etc.
This leaves prefix “Zr” which to me seems may be related to words Zrno Zrna(little seed, grain) as closes by simplicity and lead to words Zrnjevlje Zrnastost all lead to mean seed but also small part similar like you could say in English grain of sand so you could “zrnce pijeska”. This resemble saying “manji od makova zrna” (smaller then Mak seed).
But it is so its hard to prove because its only two voices without also considering other words like Zrak zračak (air but also ray of light) that may be also related or Zren (of age, rippen or enogh) like Zrenuo or prezren or names of city Prizren and Zrenjanin for example. Some words along this like nazreo nazreti prozreti means to forsee predict and link root to mean “to see” like in word Zrcalo (mirror) which is synonym for coming to age and to rippen.
That is best that I could conceive what could be etymology of that word.
Srijem or Srem
in ekavian from Sremska Mitrovica (Roman Sirmium ) in Slavic gravitate to word sred (middle center) or srest (meet someone) consider sentence: “ako sremo nekoga” or sretemo sresti sreo. Also word like Srijeda Sredinom Srednje all imply to center/middle and as Srem was indeed a political and religious center in various periods of Roman Empire so maybe that could be it.Just to add that in Montenegrin speech occur form: “ako se srijem sa njim srijem ako ne ne” meaning if I meet him (on my way) I meet him but if not then not.
Footnotes
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There are plenty of reasons to love Ukia, a beautiful town situated in the heart of Kenya's Rift Valley. One of the main reasons is the abundance of land and plots for sale in this area. If you're looking to invest in a piece of land or a plot, Ukia is definitely a place to consider. And the good news is, you can easily find a wide variety of options by checking out the listings on Jiji.co.ke.
From residential plots to commercial land, you can find it all in Ukia. The town's location offers a perfect balance between urban convenience and rural tranquility, making it a popular choice for those looking to build their dream home or start a business. With land prices still affordable compared to other major towns in Kenya, Ukia presents a great opportunity for investors.
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