Would education programs on software development benefit from a course that used multiplayer game dynamics to determine grades?

Question

Max Beatty · Answer

Personally, I would not want my grade determined by multiplayer game dynamics. I've never played any MMORPGs so after reading the syllabus I felt immediately at a disadvantage to those who do play games like World of Warcraft. This structure is so different from most other courses that I think I would spend more time focusing on the rules of the game than the material of the course.

Game dynamics make sense for determining grades because as a student I approached each semester with the same mentality, "What is the least amount of effort I need to put forth to get the highest grades?" If the cou

Game dynamics make sense for determining grades because as a student I approached each semester with the same mentality, "What is the least amount of effort I need to put forth to get the highest grades?" If the course structure is a game, I would want to find shortcuts, loopholes, and hack it any way possible. Ultimately, I would ask myself, "Can I come up with a way to get an A without learning much if any Processing?"

If a student is interested in learning Processing and programming concepts, will the game dynamics be a barrier since they ultimately care about their grade? If a student has no interest in Processing or programming concepts but needs to pass this class as a requirement, will they be able to work the game to their advantage in order to pass without learning much? Those are the kinds of questions I would ask myself when designing a course to use multiplayer game dynamics.

I think it's great you're looking to take alternate approaches to teaching. Good luck!

Robby Slaughter · Answer

You've asked two questions. The first is: "Would learning how to program be of] benefit [in a technical course?]" The answer to this is clearly yes. I would suggest that a course in computer programming ought to be taught as a core requirement under the same expectation that all students must take an introductory course in composition. I would suggest that if you have students who are not interested in programming than you have a much larger problem; as these are students who do not have a desire to create.

(By way of analogy, I once took an assembly programming course where the grade for at le

(By way of analogy, I once took an assembly programming course where the grade for at least one of the assignments was determined by a simple formula which was based upon length of the program and the speed of execution. A bonus would be awarded for scores beyond 100%, the syllabus assured me, so I set about determining what grade I would need to earn to be able to forfeit the remainder of the class. I then found a technique using self-modifying, self-decompressing code to game the algorithm. The professor decided not to honor the syllabus because I would "learn nothing" from skipping the rest of the assignments.)

If you cannot require that students learn programming before entering your class, or if you feel like a variation in knowledge puts some students at a significant disadvantage, you might want to have two paths through the course. This is a common design choice in games anyway, and as long as they are both open it is valid. For example, you can give students the choice of writing an essay that describes some theoretical program, or composing pseudocode itself.

I hope this is helpful. Best of luck!

Mark Maratea · Answer

I had to look up the games interactivity degree because I’ve never heard of it. And after seeing it, I have no desire to see it again. That is part of the “you will never get a job with this but it seems cool and is a great way for us to make money” kind of degree.

Let me be extremely clear here - jobs in the games industry are specialist roles. There is no “game developer” role where you do a bit of everything at any studio that pays salaries,. Solo indie shop? Sure. A job job? No way.

Will a computer science degree teach you how to program? No. It might teach you to write enough code to pass your classes but it won’t actually teach you how to program. Because that isn’t the purpose of the degree.

Will having a CS degree get you an entry level job in the games industry as a gameplay programmer? Unlikely. You could probably find someone out there to hire you for pennies and demand 16 hr days working on some crappy web game. But a game job at a reputable studio? No. A degree is one of the minimum things but it isn’t close to all of them.

Go to a college with a strong CS or SE program. Join the campus or local area game club. Make games. Make many many many games. Learn to write software. Learn to maintain software. Learn to refactor software. Learn how to demonstrate doing those things in an interview.

Will a double degree in computer science and games interactivity prepare someone for both the gaming industry and the software development industry?

John F. Dooley · Answer

So let’s divide up your question into parts:

real-time: You’ll need to know something about computer organization and operating systems design.

scalable: software engineering, parallel algorithms and development, algorithms

multi-player: distributed systems (also applies to scalable above)

game: graphics, linear algebra (particularly matrix algebra), maybe a physics course in mechanics

I’d also suggest doing some work in an open-source project (just browse and find one that’s interesting); that will make all the courses real. Check out what programming languages these projects are using and make sure you learn them well. If you can find an internship at a place that’s doing distributed software that would be terrific.

Since you’re a freshman, you should have plenty of time to get all these in.

Good luck!

Mark Baldwin · Answer

I would suggest that it depends much more on the quality of the degree and the direction you want to go with your professional life.

There are numerous game degree programs out there. I’ve examined many of them, and most if them are pretty much crap. Most of these schools are offering the degree because that is what students want, not because the school has the expertise to teach in the field. So be very wary when selecting a school which has a game degree. And note, expertise in computer science or software development IS NOT expertise in game development.

In contrast, while there are many schools with bad computer science programs, I believe you will find a much higher percentage of good schools.

The other thing to ask yourself is do you want flexibility in your future professional life. A degree in computer science open up very many doors (including games). A degree in game development only opens up a few doors. But if those are the only doors you are interested in, then a degree in game development might work out perfectly.

One question here. Why do you want a career in game development? Is it because you like to play games? If so, that’s a bad reason to want to go into that industry. Working in the industry is nothing like playing games. It’s high pressure and long hours. Yes, it can be rewarding, but only for those that find a fit.

Now if you are interested in games because you have spent your whole life designing games, or developing game software. That was my story. I was designing games from age 8 and my first published game (paper) was at age 14. Designing and developing games is something I’ve done at some level my whole life. If that describes yourself, then you know your personality fits that career, and it’s probably something you should consider.

Ralph Case · Answer

You will find the answer to your question if you take that class on distributed systems. And also classes on Operating Systems, on graphics, on algorithms, on design patterns, on networking, on data structures.

Chris Nash · Answer

Get your degree in software engineering, 100 times over!

Do NOT get a degree in Game Development or Game Programming.

Here’s why:

The competition to get into the game development space is fierce. There are millions more people trying to get into it than there are jobs to fill. So the chances of landing a job in the game industry are fairly slim.

But it’s not impossible. Game development studios are always happy to hire developers on the cheap. Or you may get in on your own merits. Maybe your senior project was really slick and showed that you’re an awesome game development talent.

Now you’re in the industry. After two years of 80 hour weeks and middling pay, you decide to get out and get a “straight job”. You have a degree in game programming. Guess what? No one outside the game industry will hire you. You have a hard time just getting people to interview you. You discover that even though you don’t have your student loans paid off, that no one will hire you. The only people who care about degrees in game development are game developers…

Look, a “straight” degree in software engineer or CompSci will not hurt you when applying for jobs in the game industry. Game developers have some specialized knowledge, but a great deal of that can and is learned on the job. No employer expects a new grad to land in his new role and start banging out new, incredible features immediately. Even game development veterans have to learn the vibe of a studio, their tools, processes and build and asset chains. They also have to get familiar with the existing source; it takes time. It’s cool.

If you really want to get a job in the game industry, get your “straight” degree in software engineering. While pursuing your degree, get a good grip on linear algebra and everything else you need to know to be an effective programmer. Learn Unreal Engine on your own time. Learn C++.

But get that straight degree. Degrees in game-specific categories are resumé poison outside the game industry, which is where you may be headed after a few years in the industry.

Mark Maratea · Answer

“Game development” degrees are generally considered a joke. I have never hired anyone to be a game programmer that doesn’t have a CS, CE or Math degree. While have some game specific stuff is useful, you can’t sacrifice being a generalist programmer to get there.

There are some schools with solid CS programs that have a number of game electives. If you want a blend then do that and spend your electives carefully.

The game dev degrees I’ve seen have a wide curriculum - which should be a red flag unless you plan on going the indie route. Programmers don’t do art when they are in professional roles. If your degree has maya and photoshop classes then it’s already a waste.

Yash Kansagara · Answer

Game designing, for sure. You don't need any degree. Reed books. Reed blogs. Free videos etc etc.

Game programming, its a tricky part. You can learn programming but you have to improve your logic , and only way to do this is by practice.

Never assume that you know it all, there is always something to learn specially in gaming (AI, physics, rendering, optimisation etc etc). C++ can surprise you even after working for 2 years with it.

Rohit Saxena · Answer

Must:-

Data Structures - to optimally hold the data you are working with.

Algorithm Design - to process the data efficiently (space and time complexity).

Database Management - to store the processed data.

Object-Oriented Design - to build a system with efficient design.

Programming Principles - to understand concepts such as the critical region in your programs.

Good to know:-

Operating Systems

Compiler Design

Jagjit Singh · Answer

From Google search: Introduction to Distributed Systems [ http://www.cs.iit.edu/~iraicu/teaching/CS495-F12/index.html ]

More here: Teach Yourself Computer Science [ https://teachyourselfcs.com/ ]

Jason Powell · Answer

There are numerous online courses and resources available for beginners in software development. Here are some highly recommended ones:

1%3E Codecademy: Codecademy offers interactive coding lessons in various programming languages such as Python, JavaScript, HTML/CSS, and more. It’s great for beginners as it provides hands-on practice.

2%3E Coursera: Coursera offers courses from universities and colleges around the world. For beginners, courses like “Python for Everybody” by the University of Michigan or “Web Development” by Johns Hopkins University could be helpful.

3%3E edX: Similar to Coursera, edX offers courses from universities and institutions. “Introduction to Computer Science” from Harvard University and “CS50’s Introduction to Computer Science” from Harvard University are popular choices.

4%3E Udemy: Udemy has a wide range of courses on software development, from beginner to advanced levels. “The Complete Web Developer Course 2%3E 0” by Rob Percival and “Python Bootcamp: Go from zero to hero in Python 3” by Jose Portilla are highly recommended.

5%3E FreeCodeCamp: FreeCodeCamp is a non-profit organization that offers free online coding courses. It covers various topics like responsive web design, JavaScript algorithms and data structures, front-end libraries, and more.

6%3E Pluralsight: Pluralsight offers a vast library of courses on software development, including beginner-friendly content. “C# Fundamentals for Absolute Beginners” and “JavaScript Fundamentals” are good starting points.

7%3E MIT OpenCourseWare: MIT OpenCourseWare provides free lecture notes, exams, and videos from MIT courses. “Introduction to Computer Science and Programming in Python” is a popular choice for beginners.

8%3E YouTube: There are many YouTube channels dedicated to teaching programming and software development. Channels like “Traversy Media,” “The Net Ninja,” and “Programming with Mosh” offer high-quality tutorials for beginners.

Remember to choose courses that align with your learning goals and preferences, and don’t hesitate to explore multiple resources to find what works best for you.

Anonymous · Answer

Elements of game theory are useful to game designers, especially “systems designers” that are trying to build “fun” with spreadsheets and math. But game theory is predicated on “rational actor” assumptions that aren't very good at generating an enjoyable play experience (to even engage in play is irrational), so have to be used carefully, and most of the work in the field doesn't map well to gameplay.

Harold Raichur · Answer

i will break the answer into 2 parts, i am also adding internet based training into the category

Part 1- what you can learn on the net/private course without going thru a govt recognised degree course which incidently are very few & in those most dont deliver on the content or the people needed to teach a subject like game development

Part 2 will be the difficult part-what you can do on the Net/Private School still not learn the real deal.

PROGRAMMING- Yes-

Coursera is a good place to start with & there are many more blogs/resources that you can easily find for any tool or language you want within half an hours search.

As for the private schools i dont trust- the few that are there in India dont really deliver on the content.

ART- Yes

You will need feedabck-but there isnt much that you CANT get on the net- massive forum for all types of art (Concept/2d/3d) are easily available & rich with mentors & critics.

Private schools are no match to the NET- if you are lucky you might come across a faculty/trainer in a private school who goes beyond the mundane . But from my expereince most good guys dont want to teach or cant teach-they are happy chugging along at their jobs.

Design- Not Sure

As you search the net you will find loads of resources for coding & art , but when it come to design it gets tough- there are blogs & articles & an occasional video too.

Unlike Coding which has a structure or technical grammer that one can learn a particular tool or programming language.

Or art where there are loads of videos on the technical & the visual aspects, that your eyes can see & that you can repeat in practice till you begin to get it.

Not so with Game Design-

you can read books/blogs to get a hang of the game design vocabulaory used but that wont be enough to design a game.

With game design it begins with the abstract-

Games design proces usually starts with an idea (Abstract) which we then design into a playable format with clear rules (Formalize ). Its highly subjective- as the design process might vary from people to people, but then it can also be objective-as we need to adhere to real world logic and the design has to make sense and be beleivable.

As a designer you start the process- but you also need the assistance of testers.

It is called play testing your game - as a designer of a game you are too close to the idea & may not be able to see the problems that hinder the games progress.

So you need a 2nd person- The Tester

He is not the designer- he plays the game & based on his expereince playing games he finds the good & bad parts in the game.

So whats the problem- why is it a challenge to learn Game Design

In my opinion & knowledge learning a course on game design is not easy- on the net or in a private school. In private schools like i mentioned before-finding the right person with enough expereince to guide you thru the journey is a big challenge.

Again- from what i have observed- most game designers practitioners are too narrow focussed & mostly on mobile game design. They have limited exposure to other feilds that influense game design.As a learner you need to be exposed to broader aspects of design-where these guys lack.

I know i am leaving you with more questions & less answers. If you are into Coding & Art things are relatively easy & a lot will depend on the amount of practice you put in . As for as the game design side of things like i said there are challenges and a combination of resources, practice & expert guidance can help you find sucess .

Hope this helps

Good Luck

Dallas Caley · Answer

Yes, I should say that would do it…

But you know what else would be great? Some actual experience. I would weigh heavily the extra time you are going to spend getting that second degree against however many years of experience you could get in the same time and ask yourself if it’s really worth it.

Keep the following things in mind…

1. Having a degree is a great thing to get you started in your career, but in reality, nobody much cares about which degree you have, or at least that’s my experience. I have worked with more than a few software developers who only have an Art degree.
2. Does the person who needs a computer science degree do the same thing as a person who needs a games interactivity degree? I highly doubt it. The comp-sci nerd is likely to spend their time coding complicated algorithms, the games interactivity dude is likely to spend their time in user interface design. Those are two completely different fields and at any large game company there would be two completely different sets of people doing each of those things.
3. I thought i would come up with three or more things in this list but nope, only two, but those two things are important.

Mark Baldwin · Answer

The easy answers is ‘it depends’. What are the individual’s job responsibilities and skills? For example, if the individual is a 2D artist, very limited math skills are needed, but if the person is a simulation or physics programmer, solid calculus skills are needed as well as many others. Graphics programmers need to master trig, and even testers and QA need to master statistics and probability. There are literally hundreds of different jobs and skill sets that go into game development or software development, and as such hundreds of different sets of mathematical knowledge required to excel in those skills.

But I will say this, if you want to succeed in these technical fields (or even many non-technical fields), the more math you can master, the more advantage you have over others vying for the same position.

Adeniran Olusegun · Answer

Generally it all depends on what you are building.

I know when it comes to 3D design for gaming and maybe virtual Reality(VR) geometry comes into play, trigonometry, matrices after that, the maths for the global illumination algorithms are quite complicated (non linear optimization / fixed point, spherical harmonics, etc. ).

Further, some knowledge in calculus/analysis is helpful. For example, we learnt about graphic filters (e.g. gaussian blur filters in photoshop) which use convolution. Also, we discussed Bezier curves and other parametric descriptions.

Also, knowledge in probability theory might be useful. We used the Monte-Carlo integration method to compute some multi-dimensional integrals.

And finally what project or app you are designing determines the application of math you will be using, that's if you will.

Farzeen Khatri · Answer

No connection can be made between game theory and digital entertainment. Economists and computer scientists study this branch of mathematics.

A "Theory of Video Games" it is not.

Typically, game settings are far more complex than the basic models used by game theory to examine the actions and interactions of rational individuals. In spite of their best efforts, they just could not make use of it.

And even if they could, you still need to add some form of character or irrationality to the generic AI you're utilizing so that the game is enjoyable for the players.

If, in a game like Total War: Warhammer II, you had every race operate in the most logical manner, you'd get rid of all the backstory and nuance between the various factions.

Jonathan Jennings · Answer

I'd suggest Construct 3, Game Maker Studio, or Unity.

Specifically I would suggest the first 2 because they are 2d game engines and I feel the Z axis can be tricky to work with. I do love unity and think it is a fantastic tool for developing all sorts of games.

Anonymous · Answer

I would say yes, they are both essential.

For example calculus would be required for simulating realistic motion. This could be from a simple 2D platform game using basic calculus to model a “jump”, or fancy rigid body physics simulations as a player throws objects around in a 3D environment.